Transcript of 157-10014-10089.pdf
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57-10014-10089] 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F_ KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992
Date 08/06/95
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JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM
IDENTIFICATION FORM
AGENCY INFORMATION
AGENCY SSCIA
RECORD NUMBER 157-10014-10089
RECORDS SERIES HEARINGS
AGENCY FILE NUMBER 11-H-08
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR SSCIA
FROM TWEEDY , BRONSON
TO
TITLE
DATE 10/09/75
PAGES 92
SUBJECTS CIA
ASSASSINATION LUMUMBA PATRICE
DOCUMENT TYPE TRANSCRIPT
CLASSIFICATION UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS IA , 1B, 1C
CURRENT STATUS RELEASED WITH DELETIONS
DATE OF LAST REVIEW 09/25/98
OPENING CRITERIA
COMMENTS
[R] ITEM IS RESTRICTED
HM 50955 DocId:32423477 Page 1
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@MATION
Vol
to CffcInil: BubctIeat
SubJect
TOP SE oTHluted =
Btatra Bruate R 1512
Report o ['roccedingo
520b2
"_G
Hearing held belore
Senate Select Conftteo to Governmontal
OparatJons WIth Raopect to Intelligence Activitfob
3
C
;
Thuraday , October 9 , 1975
Wuhington, D. C
(Stenocype and (ur;] wer [0 che ComIttee for destruc:
WARD & PAUL
4 | 0 FIRST STREET, $. &
WASHINGTON, DJ. C. 20003
(202) 544-6000
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"inin
study
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SL
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9 @ " = € N I @
1 WITNESS
PAGR
1 Dronaon TYoody
EXHIBITS
EXHIBII
FOR IDENTIFICATION
6 1
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No . 2
11
8 No . 3
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NO
32
1(> No _ 5
35
No 6 39
{
No 7
41
2 No . 8
43
No 9
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10
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1 0, No 11 58
No 12
63
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TASCIOXEtLat
8 EXECOTIVE' SES8ION
2 1
1
Thuraday , Octobdr 10 , 1975
5
Unftad Statab Sonato ,
6 Soloct Comfttoe to Study Govarnmonta ]
Oporatlong Wich Raspact to
Intalllgance Actfvitios ,
Wabhing D c _
Tha Committeo Mat , Purauant to notica , at 11 :25 0 'clock
4 .M . ir Room Tho Capitol tha Honorable Richard Schwolkor
5
prasiding _
Prabont : Sbnator Schwefkar (praeidina)
Algo probent : Fredarlck Raron and Rhatt Dawbon Profog-
sJora ] Sta f f Mumberg .
2 C
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407 ,
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2 R 2 C E € 2 I n 9 8
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1 2 Sonator Schwolkor. Rouldiyou' rafto your right hand?
1
DO You g0lamnly gwoar that tho tostlmony 4ro about to
gIve 10 tha truth, thu whola truth, nothinq but tha truth_
80 halp You God?
Mr . Twoady . I do
Sanator Schwefkar It ha0 boon nfco moatlng you .
Mr Twoody _ Thank You vory much
(Whoraupon, Sanator SchweIker loet tho hoaring room, )
(Discusaion off the record 1
Mr Baror Twaady , You have just racufvad the oath
from Sara tor Schwelkur who ha s now luft tha room , You ar+
undar no oblfgatlor to cortirua to tebtffy In hfs absance hult
4
obvloug ly the Committea would appraclate it greatly 5E You
would continue to cebtffy .
1€
you wflling to contnua to toatffy In tha Sanator 9
absenc6?
Kr Twoedy _ I plan to testffy fully .
{ Mr Baror You ar & willinq to tastffy to tha +ruth a 9 hv
49 You car; do ft?
~weody 1 will indeed_
Mr Baror. Are You aware that vou hav e tha riaht to
courge] ?
Twbody 4m
'r Buron ar4 appaer ina hare voluntarily without
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coungo1?
1
1 Mr Twoady . I Am.
1
Mr Baron . Are al80 Ewara that may C0a90 angwaring
quastlocg any polnt If You wsh to conault wfth coungal?
Mr . Twaady . I am .
Kr _ Baron . FInally , ara you 8wara that a11 ot your Constf -
cutIona] righte are Intact, Including your Fifth Amandmont
rIghte to romain BIlant?
Mr Twaody . I 4m ,
1 Mr Baron AJl right, than _
Lot ug procaed to rovlow 4 sot of docunonts which Yore not
avafloble to u9 In your ffrgt examicatfon Tha a+tempt hare
today 19 not to go over a lot 0 f old ground that we covared
Jn your firgt axamination but to focug our concarng on a fav
min ovants n the 4]leged gtory of an 48a891natlon plot
agaInst Lumumba and to rofrash Your racollectIon by ravlov 0 f
) ; thoso docuan*g .
Let MG introduce 49 Fxhibft 1 4 cabla trom Allan Dulles
{ to the Leopoldville Sta+ion , markedl for Robart Guthman on
Octobar 26th , 1960 _
(Tha document referred
to va9 markad Tveady
Exhibit No 1 for
idontification )
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8
1 TESTIMONY OF BRONSON TWEEDY
2
Mr Daron No dlecu88ad thls cable In your pravloub
1
appaaranco , dld Ho not?
Mr Twaody . August 26th .
I correct tha data? It 18 Auguat 26th .
6
Mr . Baron . CertaInly .
7
Ar . Twdady . It 50 rathor Important.
8 Kr Baron _ It 19 August 26th .
0
Mr , Tweady . Vo did Inddod dlbcues It the Jat tIme
Mr Baron Aftor You took anothar look at chl8 cablo
this morning beforc Ha want tho rocord You mda 4 ramark (0
the offect that thfg cablo we9 8 bouirce 0f authorty 48 far 4 9
You Hero concarnad at tho timo _
Ig that Your Impre8sfon now?
Mr Tweady . Yog
Lot Mo just add to tha+ 4 bIt. Tha cablo Per 96 I did I0:
1 ramanbar , but Xt 19 Porfoctly obvloug tha cablc 58 tha authorit
1 Whan I firgt talkad to Bissel1 abou; thfg , he cartaInly
2
Impliad tha rdason thu subjact Ha 9 befnq raigdd 19 bacause
ft hadl been of ratfona] policy 9val concorr I do not thic*
it could bo more clear-cut thar that Th [9 wag hasica lly , this
Hag the forma ] axpre9g of tha + bv tke Diractor hlmse ] € .
I Camot renanher which cam firgt , did I sod thig cab) 2
first, or did I ta lk to Mr _ 31990] } first _ T suspect cha t
talked to Mr Disge]] fIrgt. It mugt ha baan absolutoly j:
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tho Jade tfme porJod _
1
2 Thfa maroly confIrmad what I thInk I probably hoard (rom
1 Mr _ BI880l1 firot.
Mr Baron In thfb dfacugaion wlth Kr . Bisaoll, You aro
5 roforrng to tho 8ub Jact of gattIng aCC00 to Lumumba for tho
6 purpoad of 480480Ination _
Mr . Twaody . 1 think It probably camo up In tho b0nj0 that
tho chruat 61 tho Amafican poa[Eion Wab that thora V4b no
bolutfon In tha Congo uithout cha [4ll from power of Mr Lumumba
and no majburo ghould bo Ovarlookad to achlava chfe conbtitu-
tfona [. rovolutlonary and indued _ axacutvo actfon , 5f You want
to ca ] ] It that
Mr Baror Meanng 499498indtfon?
Mr . Twbbdy . Yoa .
But nono of thege poe8 Iblo mea gurog ware bxcludad the
ma in point was that uvarybody amreed that I,umumba had :o Go or
Vo Hore 1t1 for very Berloug trouble in tho Conqo
Mr Baron You Vore referrina 8_ moment aq0 Ir discussita
8 thig Cable Allex Oull4g to the fact tha + whan You firgt
dfscu8sedl the poss [!,ilty 489489 iaeticg Lunumba 49 one neans
0f removing him from power with Richard 9i990l1 , 01sg0] 1 ro!Jrr?)
to thig cably.
'r Tweedy No I wou).1 hav 9 90An1 thf 9 cable wher: it Ver;:
ou: I 4m 4fraid Cannot pin Ie down on thfs , baccusg
Caot reminber th6 saqfuenc& 0 f 6Votg It would hava baan 4
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Perfactly natural tollow-up to my dlscussfon WIth Bfs9011 _ It 1
1 J8 concefvabla that thfs Vont out bafora I talked to Ble90]1 ,
do not oxcluda that, but tha two wara totally In tandam
Mr Daron Maving takon 4 look at 411 o tho documorte
5 that ara about to Introduca Into tha rocord today , botora
Vo bagln taking your tabt Imony on tha rocord 4ra You 'abla to
PInpolnt HIth any moro praclafon Joltfal dlacussJon with
8 Mr _ Bles0l 2 of tha progpact ot 488488fnatIng Lumumba ?
9 Mr Twoady _ Plnpoint Jt In tarme ot tlmo?
Mr . Daron Yas _
Mr THaedy . No not 1n termg o [ tima . I can on ) Y 4s8um-
Ar Barot: . It wou ld hav6 takan place Bhortly before this
Alan Dullo9 cablu?
Mr Tweody . Efther shortly ba or shortly 4ftar ,
bocauge thg next 8erf99 cablas obvioug ]v qet tho show , 4 9
It Hero, on the road
I commant just Genera ] ly on thoga cab]e8 4 9 4 groun?
Thera aru co surpr[809 in them 4 9 far 49 1 am concernad n
termg 0 f derail Much 0f i* even to this I sti]] do
romember
aspect energos very clear)y for tha t wa wera Ven
carafu) about uxanining this on tha possibf )ties 0f doiro
a.Ythfug aq6 f :st Lumunha nasIca ] ly , tti9 vko | 9 Dariod Ves 4
8cr ios exchan4s wfth the ffold who wera seoking 4 $ You can
8oe fron tha + cablu traffic , varioug Mda sur09 tha t might parfor"
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or achfave tho goa] = Includlng , Inddad a80a00Inaton , but not 1
2 by any moans Imftad to- that, that waro In troubla {Indinq
1
moan8 Yhich appaarad Jocuro , particularly Maang whlch kept the
U.$ _ hand hldden . It 18 tho to and {rom_ the atmosphara
5 of It whIch 1o famillar to tha datafls of Jt, much 0 f
Jt avau on roadIng tham , 10 rathar un [amfllar to I {ound
no aurpr[ao8 in Jt.
Mr Baron . HavIng refroghod your raco] Jactfon by rovfovica
thogo cablog , can You add any graater spacf{Icity to tho rocord
about tho gubgtance of Your convarbatlona Wlth Rchard 816go ] )
0n1 the po88 [ bflfty of 488488lnatirg Gumumba ?
5
Mr Iwasdy _ I think what Wa ugd to do _ 49 ramombor i:
8 wher It camg to tha technical oxchange wIth Station on onle
489et Varsu8 anothar the po8sIble sacurity Woaknasg of this
man Versus the pogsIble strengths o€ arother _ 91890 ] ) loft this
largely to me . I do not mean to 8av tha + did from ting
to tima review it. Ma did not dabate with mt on vhothar White
Mclan_Lu N4g somobody who Hs worth dea l irq vith or not: , baca US =
2 he had nelaiar cornections #xamplc .
Mr #aror: _ ar e Savi: ha Wou ]a! have 14t tho onerat i :
dota ils Lo
Mr Twcady The op4ra icra 1 deta ilg trying 70 Cone 0'
Hith soe solu:don tha lookad d $ i F It mad6 S0ts9 am harl 1
promi90 guccess 1 do :t reca]] tka t Wo would discu99 thi;
type 0 € 4 cebl e i data 1 ) As You can Se9, k0 rdl4486 quit-
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2
number 0f them_ bacaubo ha wantod to rama In famillar with
1
1 them .
1 (Diecubslon oft tha rocord . )
Mr_ Daron Back On tha rocord On thfa subjact.
Ar . Tvoady . I do not havo any {urthar racollactlon of
6 dataflod di9cun9Jono with Bf8801 1 on Ehfn _ On the othor hand _
7 It 4ab Perfoctly cloar that ho remu Inod actfvoly Intaroatod In
&1 Jt. I am Bure that he wib tha one that had the Sdaa of Jubtin
0' Dounoll _ tor oxample , I Ehink ho undoubtadly came uP wieh
that Idaa Ag You reca]l, I had torgotta untfrely that Justir
1 0' Do , uall had ovar Playad 8 rolo in thf 8 _ I am 8uro #han he
} : fixed on 0' Donne) 1 the pO s 9 {bilty t? {39[< } :ha 3ic 0f ;;oricc
) : he must have discuss&d this with him. I can a Imoat B4y 1
reombor It, but hardly
Mr Baron Do You have any raco]loction 0€ Khat 0fsse ) ]
J < 84 fd to you in the ser i08 o€ discugalors on tho prospact 0f
489499fnating Luumba 4 bout the 4ve ] at which tha exploratlor
of thf8 prospect ha d beer authorized?
Mr wweady No Tha t i$ ch# 4apect I Vi8 nover cloar 0n1
excopt that it wa s Par fect )y clear 60 Mc Fha : he wa9 qufte
co#fidea.t tha this was I am Iow talkizg about tha elininati::
0 f Lumumba bY whd taVdr means I am cot ta king necegsarfIy
about 48 9d95 in4 $ ior: ; I want to 66 Quite cl-ar 0n) thet
I Va $ quft# clear in my mird tMt th= polfcy levals
Waghinqton Ware agreed that Lumumba must qo cannot Go an?
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furthar than that. I cannot s4y , tor axample, that 81fmel1
1
2 s4 Id I think 43 en Agency Vo should conuIdor a88ab Inatlon on
thfe or that thfa had baon dlacusBad with tho polcy lavol8
of govarnmant _ I do not know and Jt wab navar mdo claar to
nor: doeb shlb cabla Make cloar but Jt 4as parfactly cloar
that Mr _ Dullo8 folt qulta qufet In hfo mInd about dlscussInq
any of tho;o 4bpucts wIth tha Stato Dopartment or tho Ambaesador
8 Mr Baron . ott tho racord
9 (Wheraupon , 4 brlet racobb wab takan . )
1 ( Mr Baron . Na ara back on tho rocord now
Hhot stoppad _ wo waro dfscugslng Your account of Your
mootiuaa Wlth RIchard Bi880] 2 wherc tho Jubject 0f a,a40 Inatiny
0 Lumumba had arigan amorg other meang that had buan coneidarud
Jn dteposIng o f Lumumba Did Richard Bisg&l2 over Indicato
] # dfrectly or Indfrectly to You that ha had tha authorfty o f the
Pre8 [dent of the Urfted States for moving torvard uith an
opora tlon whfch might Include 499499inating Lumumba ?
'r Twoody Lut ne make ft quite clear , ha certa inly
noVor martionad the Preefdant a t 4]1 .
Mr Raron name ?
:r Tweady Dy Gemy, or Hvan any imdicatior It Wa 9
merely my inpresgion reinforced cartainly , efthar befors or
after , of chfg cably Allan Dul le9 chat thig was a nolicy
loval docie io but the Bxtar t to whlch the Exacutiva had
2: 488489Ination dliecusged wi+h him at a ]1 , I cannot comant OI
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8 10
IE 1s Par [octly obvlous tha€ tha Agency folt that fc had 1
1 tho support of tha Exocutiva In of {ortb to 6imlnato Lumumba
It w49 at least my Lmpra89fon throughout thfa whola perlod eha +
J{ Jt avar cama down to tha pofnt whoro somabody s4Jd , I thlck
can do It, and Ya dacidad upon tho moana that bomtono mould
have s Id , woll, baforo Wo do obvlously tharo hab to bo {Jna]
approval . I would not hava known whora tho {Jna ] aPprova ]
8 ould hava como from I would not axpact tha t my corrabporidonca
9 uIth the Chfof ot Station Ln Ldopoldvflle would roeult In tho
1c: 199488inatfon of Lumumba without {urthar ra Zaranca.
Aaron You Here under the ImprossLon tha t whatevar
5
} : stepg You Voro itvolved In toward 6lfminatirq Lumumba 4 8 You
put ft, Vere fully authorized at tha hiqhest loval of the
1; governnect?
1 : 4r . TVoady . I was
i( Mr Barou_ Tha * would Include tha Prasidant?
Twuady . I do not really thfnk I can angwar that
questior_ Baror Wher: someborly at my laval_ fafrly serior
1 though it Was , rsceives clear-cut asgurances that tha
lova) wants gomithico dore, it is Varv i{ficu]+ for hlm
judgo whether tha Pryaidant Per 56 ha 9 ar in ccrtact with ti:c
Agei:cy that he ha g don thig through Kis #tiora | Securicv
Advisor tha Secretary stty, or Kho-ver Th-ra could he
1,0 Hay tha t I cculd judlge tha
1 think 1* wou)] he (Wutc mis] eadicg 1f I Hare to try Ko
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11
8
road Into Jt 'Ithor then or row .
1
Mr . Baron . Wha tevar LmprassLon you had of tha axcont o €
tha authorfty for the stope that you Voro takIng to alIminaco
Lumumba Vad darfvod your convarsatione WIth RIchard
Blg8a) 17
5
Mr _ Twoedy . And tho cablo .
6
Mr . Baron And tha cablo by Allon Dulleo
7
Mr . Tvoady . WhIch marely Indicatad to Mo tht tho Agencv
8
Va9 con f Idont thet It had Its PolIcy guldance and Wab thus
acting accordingly .
1
naron Botwaoil thfs cabla On Auubt 26th Yh ich
Allon Dul ]08 dapatchud to tho Congo ard ha cahla Wo VfI] noy
merk Exhibft 2 , whlch is a cable trom yourge] € to LoopoLdvf) ! -
0"1 Septembar 19th , marked Fyee Guthman from Jaduin
(The documont rcfarrad
to wa9 markad Tvoody
Exhlblt No 2 for
Idontffication . )
8
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Mr Baron . Kore thera any othor modtInge that You raca ] ] 1
betvoan yourgalf and RIchard Blaeoll wharo he asked You to
mova beyond tho exploratory etaga to tho Implamantation stage
In 403408 InatIng Lumumba ?
Mc . Twoady . I do not know a8 411. I Just do rot raca 11
6 that that ovar occurrad
hr _ Baron . Lat 48 turn, thon , to thfo cablo .
Thfe cabla indlcata8
Mr . Twuady . Thf8 18 tho Ono on the 19th?
1 Mr naron .
(Dfgcussfon off tha racord
Daror Dack on the record
Thig cable baqing wfth your Indfcatior to tha Chlot of
Statiou that Boneone wag procauding Bhortly to tha Conqo who
muld aIrounce hfmge ] f 49 S{d Erom Par i8
First of 4 1l, to backtrack Guthman , in thfs cablo , i9
the Chid f 0f Station , 16 that right?
Mr . Twbedy _ Correct_
8
"r Who we agread would bb raforred to 49 the
0
Ctfef 0 ! St2+io: or hy h{ ? a1149 , Kadcmena 4rd Jadwin 19
Mr . Twoedly My p8eudorym
Mr . Barou id You have 8 EJrat nanb {r tha Peeudlonvm?
Mr. Twuady Thomd 8 k
Ar Raro:: Nho wag sid from Parfg?
Ar _ Twdedy _ I wa3 trving to thluk_ The Idoentltv 19 Sid
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Ar .
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8 13
1 Brow _ Sia Brown 23 8 rmo meanb nothlng to mo
1 2 Mr Baron . If I reprabant to You that W0 havo had tobf Docy
1 Irom E dnoy ~coetriob that
thle Idontfty stood for hImoolf , does
that refresh your racollectlon?
5 Mr _ Twoody . It would not burprfoa mo. It Wab aboumpt fo1
6 that It probably was , but I could not raca [l , 00 I {Ind ~ Sn
2 other words , your oxplanation , I thfnk , 10 what I mould hava
expocted:.
Mr . Baron DO You havo any Indopandant racollactlon of
1: digpatchicg Sangy_Gottlleb on
4 ~miaefon tha Congo?
Twody . I hava tha Mos t unclaar raco]ection that I
3
dfscu8gud Yith BIgs0 [ 1 Glnoy Goft1i:
9 qoino F0 ths
8
] Congo . 1 hava no recollectlong of any convargation8 T had
1;; WIth Mr Gottfiab} hlmself , aIthough I am quite convIncad I ha $
them .
In other worda,ft 18 Inconceivable to Mo tha t ho vould hav-
gon0 to the Congo wIthout geding I carnot reca ] 1 the
gubstarce 0f our discuggfons a]though I a9sume , 4nd 1 Imaai::
{
Mr 8i9So] ] nust ha Ve shared in this, w8 discussud what; Jt W2$
4 ]1 aLout , the oparationa ] prcb) ams irvo]Vad s0 tha t hd , f0
turn, cou]d 64 gomowhat sangib] + ahou: what his own supportim:
ru lo 1": tnis miunt ba _
Whof: I s&y thi9, {t i9 4 ras0&.abl6 asgumnfion but it i $
not direct recollectior
Mr Daron Dohs thf 9 cabla fndicata to You that You dJa
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TOFScRE
14
1 dfopatch S @3oy_CotErtob to" tho Congo on 1 highly seblelve
1
2 miobIon?
1 3 Mr Taody . It doo8 indoad _
Whan You I dfspatchad hIm, I mould 84y Jt could bo
5 mora accurato to Bay that Mr . Bo8o1l 4nd I dfopatched hlm _ I
6 a bura tho authorIty for hlm golng would hava como from ho
rather than ma , but wo arrangad the dotafle ,
8 Mr : Baron Your comman t about tho fact that tha authorfty
would havo Ilowod from Mr _ Bisgoll dfracty 18 borne out, 10 It
1c; not , by Mr . Blgbolz'0 inftlalg on thla cabla?
Mr Twoady . Yog , axactly.
Mr . Maron. Was that 4 Ea frly unugua ] practicu, have
both the DDP 4t:d thu Chfef o€ the Africa DIvisfon 8Ign 8
J ; cablu?
1 $ Mr Twoedy Qufto common . Throughout tha organfzatlor
16 on mattorg o f oithor particular sunsitIvfty or 80 Important that
1 '; the DDP wished to ba constantly formod about corrabpondanca
on a subjuct, the Chief 0 f the Divfgion wou Id orIginata
{ out cables hava it actua ly iqnod of f by tho DCP
Tha € we 9 qjuite 4 ccinmon practicd In the Agency
Mr Baron Do hava a rucolloction having goon this
documact, 0 f tha fact that You got up 4 spacial charne] usicq
27
tho YQPROF sengitivity iedicator?
Tweady. I (lid not recall XQPROP , but I racu ] 1 specid ]
channe) 9 _
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15
Mr . Baron . Thlo, would hava rostrlctad 411 trafflc trom 1
2 yourBalt to Chfet of Station , I0 that corroct?
1 Mr . Twaady . Yob , My Doputy would 4 [90 hava accebb to It
In my abbanco .
5 Baron . Tha t bo Glon Ffelda?
6 Xr . Twaady . Yas .
7 Mr . Baron Would RIchard Blsee)l hava acc0bb to Jt?
8 Mr . Twaady _ Indaod ha would _
9 Mr _ Baron . Allan Dulles a 1ao?
Jc Twoady . Cortainly 1f hu wantod _ abaolutoly _
] Baron Why w4g 4 apecia [ commutn Ica t channel set
12 up In thig cable?
Nr Twcedy . Becauga 0 f thg 96n19 Itfvity of the gubjoct .
J < Thfe , agair, was 4 fraquunt procadure In tha Agancy On b0n8Itfve
3: mtterg. If one was abrut mount a gungitfvo operatfon . cre
of the fJrst thingg norma ] iy dor0 was to sot up BpecIa ]
1 communicatione procedures 90 tho dfag0mination 0 f the me 8 9490$
] could be rustricted to wha t wes raquir-d_
Mr DaroI: Ir this ca s+, the e9pecia] ly sonstive gubiec+ tr:
which You Were regtrictitg corununjcatior8 2cc099 wa 9 the elici-
uation 0 { Lumunba by On # Means or auother?
Mr. Tweedy That i9 correct-
"r Baro Iha + wa9 the 49giaument tha {Sidney Gottlia
w2g to expla in to th Chie f 0f S+a-icr wh6r: he arrived ix tke
Co:lgo?
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Mr . would
Mr .
Jong Mr .
to
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Mr Tvaody . Tha€ , I do not recall _ I can 438 Wme 1
that S1dnoy Gottlfab = would hava dfscubead wfth the Chfot of
{ statfon Instrumanto whlch TSD mIght havo YhIch could ba
ab8fstanco Ln an 68048Inatfon attempt . I 48swmad ho dfscubgud
5 hfe Invantory, whatovar It mIqht bo , and tha two pra8umably wore
6 tryIng to coma to boma conclublona 40 to what hava tho
bast chanco or the mobt practIca] chanca of bolng usod _
Thf e 18 my 'as8umptlon _ I think In thfs aarly 8taga, that
Yould hava boan tha Purpoga of tha axarciso .
1 Mr _ Baron Lot Mo reprogont You tha toat [nony of S[AEA;
{Gott)lob aboue Ewo conVaraation8 tha + ha had a + Naarquarter9
bafore ho umdartook the migsion to the Corgo J" Sanfambar
)" 1960.
First, when Dr Gottllab: lookad a + th[8 cabla gome
1 subsequont cablus whlch Wa wf1l dfscusg today , ho said these
:6 cable8 4ppllod to himgolf _ He con firmed tha {act that he took
a to tho Congo arrivad on Sentamber 26th 4 9 19 IndIcred
by a subsuruant cabla, and' left or October Sth, 4 $ is indcc*e
by awother Cablc.
Ir Gortl ieh sa icl before he 14ft thc Corec 27 sorr;
before he Jeft for the Congo he had} 4 corvarsa:ior wfch Yol
Gle: Fielflg ir which You instructod] him *0 ta*o a Tatha }
mnateria] t0 the Corgo arcl giva t c0 6*4 Chier 0 f Statioi
Kith instruceio;s a sg8 Ssina:# Lunumba i f it va: c nossible
stid to i"atruct tha Cki- Sttion in1 thd tochrica} moa n15
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onIY
0f
might
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0 f
and
trip and
41.d]
t0
0f hy
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whIch thfo Iathal mtarlal could bo IdmInfotored through
1
Lumumba 8 Eood or toothpaeta or somothfng that ho would Ingost _ 1
1 Mr {oetriabjaleo tagtitiad tha t In that convargation You
Indfcatad to hfm tha € thaao Instructlong Vuro boing glvan 4 +
5 RIcbrd 94,614 * sutorIty-
6 Did that convarsatlon tako Placo?
(DIrcubsIon of f tha racord. )
Twoady . Hfs tastImony doas not babIcally rofroah my
mamory Tha only abpect ot St whlch I would find unroa ]at Ic i5
tht he had an Ingtructlon from Mo to to) } tha Chfaf of Stat lor
to u98 thfs Ma terfa ] ard 7o ahead ard 498038 fnato Lununba a 9
5 ( , 1u. ef fact, that 19 a ] 1 tho authoritv cha + Ha 5 naceagary ,
To ba frank _ that doeg no: make 9en88 Tha rest o f ft is
perfectly feds1ble . I do not rsca [1 f6 In tho datal, but T
x;
am not going to deny whatGaiai 0414 _ I thfok his roco] lectior
that I told hlm , In cffuct, to go to ths Chfof 0f Statlon anr
16,
Bort of gat the ghow Ot: tke road and ug0 the pofson and
45349sInata Lumumba Hithout any furthar ceremony Is just rot
{ way it would have happerel_
Mr Daror . Why Is tha+?
Mr Tweady For tha simple rkusor that urder no circumgt ?::c
tha € instruction hava buur: giver Sy ma without refererc
to higher authorfty uj) through the cha [: 0f commat:d _
Ur Jaror Nhe: Ycu gay rofbrerce *0 hichsr authority ,
what do You madr?
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Mr .
Kou ]d
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Rah
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Mr . Twaady . My hIghar &uthorlty Jn tha {rot Inbtance 1
! 2 yould bo Mr . Dlosa ) 1
1
Mr . Daron . {or , Gott1ab] did tobtify
Mr . Twdedy . I undaratand
Kr . Daroo . tha€ you rofarrad In Your convarsation wlth
6 him to tho {act that you had authorfty trom Mr . B1o00l1 for the
7 488fgnment You Woro giving to Gottlebs
8 Mr Twaady . Tho only thlng that Mr "Gottrab would dieaored
9 on 48 that thora would ba no furthar raforenco , which hie
10 statamant Lmplfa8 from Laopoldvllla batora chey took any action
on thfg mattor, Jn other worde , take tha fIna ] ac:J0n On thf&
13 mattor ard tha t Wa 9 novar a mttor , Ko tha bast 0 { roco] l8c -
tior, tha t wa B aver dolegatad Mr B1g00 [ 1 _ In othar word;
1 6 Mr . Bfs80] 1 never 84 id , look , You hava the pIctura, q0 ahead
1 and do t in your own good timo wlthout any further reforancs
16 co Mo anybody elga , nor 18 the tanor of thfs correepondance
I rvad t that way at 411 _
'r Baron _ Do You recall 19 Mr Bisgel 1 ever want a 9
8
49 tellfcg You tha t i: an opFortunity aroge :o carry 0f € the
4ssa95 ination o f Lumumba in a 9ftuztion whbr& it would
practically Imposg [ble to confirm, tha + there Wa s authorfty
for proceeding wit} the 49949sina + i011 with Headquarters , tha +
thc Chief Statio: wo' d| be, undl&r those circumstanc 89
authori to procead to assa99irate L.umunbe ?
4r Tweedy . No 1 do Iiot .
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Mr . Baron . D You have 8 racollactIon about tha€ ono Yay 1
2 or tha othar?
1
Mr . Tvandy . I do not raca]1 tht ho Ovor Put Jt to mo
thfb way.
5 Mr _ Baron . Lot U8 than broak down Your statamant about thf9
6 mootIng #Ith ADr . Gottliab} Into componant parto.
You agroo now , havIng haard 'Dr Gottlisb" 0 totImony_ tha:
Jt 10 erua that you had aBkod {Dr Gottlfobi to go to tha Congo?
Mr . Twiady . Indoad _ 43 I asgumad I hd, Yab .
Mr Daron . It 18 0180 truo Ehat You know that @r : Gottl{e'
wa 9 to carry 4 letha ] materia ) to tha Chfor of Statfor In tte
Congo?
Mr Taady . If ho gay8 80 I do not Algaqred wIth him
[ do cot frackly raca]] the + at thfg Do int , but I narfact ]v
Yadded to accept: what he gay8 .
Mr Faron Asguming , for tho momant that you could have
raqufred tho Chfsf of Statfon to chuck back with Hleadquartars
boford ha carriad out an} 489889ication nd99Jon , would it bu
8 true that vou 4sgiqred GottLiGh the tisk of Ingtructina
4 the Chief 0 f station tc 2ssds5 ic2+6 Lumumba on chat ba 9 is ?
Kr Tweady . Tr Gettlleb Ia9 the head 0 € tha Technica 1
Sorvices Divisfor or whatever it wa 5 called in those days _
Daron Lot jump in for 4 nomant
At thls Doint , for about a Y#41* a ha ) € , ha wa9 the
Sclenco Advisor to Mr nissell, ancl he movad to Tuchn ica ]
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Dr
me Ar
anr}
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Sorvicaa ahortly thoroaftar_
{
1 Mr _ Tvoady . The way You Put Jt to ma waj that I Instructor]
1 Go€e1sFto 4084 88 te Lumumba Tho anovar to that J0 , I
gura I #ovar Inatructad Gottlaeki to 4884 abinato Lumumba Th [ $
5 I0 cha Yay You Jt co Mo
6 Mr Baron _ Lat: mo correct that.
Hha € I maant to Bay Hab , vould ha vo agked Gottlak
b to convay tha Instruction to tha Chfet ot Station that ho wa9
9 to 4884 58 [n *0 Lumumba f€ found 4 way to do It and 5{ ha
1 2 conffrmod ft with faadquartor8?
Vr Twdody MY arswer *0 that {8 4 ]mog t corta Irly cot
Tha would have be6r covarad In other correbp ordunca, which
thfnk Is demonstrated by thaso cablo8, cha Chief 0: Stat lor:
diroct from Mg Hith authority of Mr _ Dlggoll _ I Yould ha Vt
ug6d nelther would 'r Big801 1 , Mr . {Cott1iab,a9 tha channa 1
for chfls Ingtructior
Ari Iaron Dr GotEinb ha 9 a 190 restifiad that, 49 i4 e
froin cerryirg the nzteria] $ 60 the Chie f 0€ Sta-Jon
ingeructin7 ir tcheir 0sy aud givina him an i#g+ructior 2hout
misgior: to es3assi -2 L,umumba tha: he had Ore furel;er rol 4
i: che Cungc ; hc wes 60 9erv: a 5 a tuckcica] advdsor to :he
Chisf of Stetio: 0:1 ths fad9ibi] ity 0 f 1s i n these bio lcnica !
gubstacos to carr' 3f f 66e op+rtlor
1s 62tf17zw Du? it, GottLiabi '~" $ 20 8E4y dowr: there {3r
4 short Per lod 0: 674 to datemnica tha ~chrica] f049bi]i:;
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Ina am
Put
You
ho
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no:
a;c
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{ of tha operatlonal plan tha t tho Chfor statlon mIght como
UP #Ith.
1
Mr . Toody . Thlo 8jem8 quita roasonable co No . Prasumahly
#ith hls tochnlca ] knowledga tho natura ot thaa0 matorfa ] 9
ho would ba In 4 poeItion to oithor comant on or advlso the
Chfof of Statlon 48 ha attamptad to put togathar Jom0 xInd 0f
oparatIon_ That makab good 80n80 mo .
8 He would raqufre,' besfeally , a tachnIca ] advfsor
Mr . Baron RDr "Gottl ebral- Bo tostiflod that che mater{4 ] 9
J (> ha took Yith hlm woro of 2 tafrly short MIf0. Tholr toxIclty
would Vano within 4 mtter of Vdak8 .
Givan that bit of Informat fon to rofrogh: Your raco]lactlc::
do6 g that Mako it more 1fkely tha (Gottriehi wa 9 thoro_ to 0 {d
the Chf6f 0 f Stction In actua lly carrying of f tha adminfstra: ior
of thebo drugs _ oppoged to gfvng him qarbra ] irgtructiors
1 6 In tho UA6 of such letha ] guhstarceg ?
Mr Twuady . I do not know rea ] )y tha + T can commant: OnI
the t _ the materials womla dotarlora+0 fast , the uge 0f t6"
i: posgibl e , [ wou ]d strcss the 2+ter , wou Id necegsarfly Kave
Lo ha #XDeditierl _ but th- Ovdrwhelnirg corcert 0 & Heardlquarters
ajd tke field , an4[# , demonstrate in thlg corruspondence wa 5
our coicer.1 tha : tkig ching co'lal bd dlor:e 4 + 411 , that it he
done right , S-curoly , 4d thn+ th: - U.5 hard ghould he
con Cca led _
1 f this Virc ockdl s wth th: 1if& of thd9# Mia tar ia ] s ,
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of
of
to
es
If
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think tha t mould hava Just beon too bad _ Dut I thlnk It 18
1
2 parfectly cloar tha t Wo would not havo axpadftod anythIng at
1 tho riok of dolng It unprofa88lona Ily .
tape 1b Mr . Baror At tha pofnt that Gotertab; laft {or tha Corgo
5 aftar talkicg WIth You, would ho hva boen inpovarad to convoy
6 to tho Chiat of Station that an 480488Inatlon of Lumumba could
ba carried of f 1f ha could moot tho crltoria You just laJd out ,
concoa Imont of tha U.5 _ hand and u80 of tha8o ma torfa [ 8 botora
thelr potency waned?
Mr . Tvoady . My anagwor to cha t wou[4 be he womd be In {0
pobftfor do anything mord with tho Chiar Statior: 5 € the v
roached tha t point Jn plarnfng, that 45 of tha a9t t{na hy
1: Wb at Ilaadquartars that thare woula probably ba an approva ]
from Wa ahIngton
Mr Baror You wou ]d axpect, then tha Chfof statior
wou ld ha Va boen expected to ruconfirm with Meadquartars the
fact that he had 4 go-ahead ?
Mr wweedy _ It wou ld navar have occurrad to ne otharwis?_
8 Xr Daror _ It would ba Your testimony that: 4 Fhough you
o nct specificu ]ly reca) ] Your COnV ersa+ with Or_Gottlia
You 'ou ]d ha made that clear to Dr 7orF11eh}
Mr Tweedy . I wou) 4 have thought 90 Yos , bu' 1 could] co+
comej;? aY furthcr
Mr Daror Thc reascu for tha 1s You do not reca]] th#
conVeraatioc?
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}
Mr . Tveedy . Not Only that/
Diz Gotgu abiwae
40 familfar
8
1 48 1 4ib #Ith (a) tho sone{EIvity of thfi particular project
1 and what 4a8 Involvad and tha way that tho Agoncy did Ito
businag8 , Yhlch Wa 0 chingo ot thfg xind wero not doa lt with on
5 bort of an offhand basis .
6 Mr . Dawjon . Wha t Ls offhand?
Mr . Twoady . The fact that tho {Jold and Dr GotETtob wer&
& glven somathlng In tho mturo of 4 blank chock 4 8 to how thay
would 9o about It and Khon , wIthout {urthar raferanco to
Hloadquarters.
4r Dawbon If wo aro to tfe thle to tha cables , thon _
[9 thero somathIng In tha cablo8 predatIna rottliab'9vfsft to
tha Congo whfch woulc laad You to bolleve tha + It had provlous ] :
baur. authorizad by gon8 wordg In thoga cablas?
Mr _ Tvoady . Nat, Mr _ Daweon , had prevlous Iy boon
authorized?
Mr Dawbon The authorlzation of tho 498499Jntlon ef fort
the #lioination of Lumumba
8 Mr Tweady Only in tha most generz [ :urmg {lo operetio:_
had Deer Put forward bv thv ff0ld In our buairass +he9+
thfcas Were dlone by opera+ iora ] plarn a t which po int o1:e
came up with an operation thet wa $ aqreed upon tha Statior
b Hleadquarters , this, ther, wou ]cl ha ve beer ofther
Implenaated or #ur dccording to the S4v-90 from 'leadquarters
'r Dawaon That kind 0f opyra+ [ora ] plannIng 19
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4ftor Mr . {Gottrfabfarrfvos In tha Congo , (8 that corroct? 1
Mr Twoady _ Thfo , In 6ffoct , I0 tha & (Indicating) You
1
can tell by tho Chfet ot Station , thoro 40 no furthor
roforonca co Mr . Gottllobi, 49 I reca 11 _
Ar Daron In thlb cabla trattic?
6 Mr . Twoody _ In thle cabla' traffic, Va9 looking et 411
gorta of ways 4nd maane of olnlnatlng Lumumba not raatricted
& to 488488Inatlon, which coincidab axactly VIch my racolloctfon
Y of the: par lod botwean whon tha eubject wa b (Irbt broachod to thb
Station ard that rathar Indafinabla par Iorl Yham , In 6f fact , It
wa 3 4 1 1 ovar , whfch , 1 9u1ppob0 , bagica]ly 18 tha dfbarpearaece
of Lumumba
I think 4 1 1 of thig traffic supports my contantion cha:
under the ingtructlonb he wa 8 9fvan, the Chfef 0f Sta+jot} in
Loopoldvflle get about explorinq 41 alloy8 and found none
crystal clear Thore were probleme with 4 [1 0 f tham Som6
looked more promisf[g than others. Individua 19 who miqht
used obviously lookud More promising chan ochers Sone were
digcussid discarded _ Ne conmented on Sone And 90 I+
Yat
Mr Baron I thiuk chat Wa should proceed in 4 momen:
E0 go through these cahles xith a closy eY9, onb by ol8 .
Oue ther point inr_Sottlieb'sitest imony , to ba {air
to nim , he 9aid he wa 9 under thy inpr-9gi0r that it wa $ aenere ]
Agency procedure tka: in a migglor: 1fk0 thf 8 One che Chiu: c:
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Statlon probably could check back wIth Headquartors , tha t any 0
1 prudent Chfat of Sttion sould chock back to roconf Irm hfe
1 autborftyto q0 ahaad with an 400488Ination oparation, butinr
{ott1objaald {ui hla converoation wlth You ho Kab not told
Lhat ha should convay to tho Chlet ot Station tha raqulremant
6 tht ha should chack back with Hoadquartarg boforo ho procaadad
7 #ith che 408480Imtion of Lumumba
Hr. Twoady . I cannot commont on hf8 atatemanto , bocau8b
cannot reca ]1 Vhat I 84 Id to him, It cartainly 18 parfact]v
concefvabla to me that I cculd hava had thlg convorsatIon wIth
him and not nantioned thfg , tha: thf g won ]d ba covorad Jn 4 1 }
;
tho basic corrdspond#1C6 tha + I Wa? havin with tho Chfof
8 tion
Mr_ Haroi So ther f : 19 poss ib] 4 or [8 5 ' proba h] =
tha t In Your irstructiors to 'Sidney Gottleb about his nission
to tha Corgo You miqht rct have explicitly murtlored tha
requframert trat thu Chief 0f Statior: returr F0 Meadquarter 9
to recucfirm rig cuthority to move ahead with cho 4980ssir +iot.
1 TVezdy . It is , [ supos6, pcssi!l & am not "1
to Scy it 15 3c} Poss ible . Met- 92'i; Fhz: that 18
Lot the way Ke tid busin-Ss , dud] 0n1 the #hflo, Siarey Goft)i4
Kouldl familfar with thc + a 9 I wou la! nerha rot 2 3
fenflicr with i : hecause h - Wa 3 O11 Fhe techrica) 9 ide wher-
was C1. ch= opurat ford [ 5 id $ arc u9ed tc thia ckair of cowmi4l
thir and the r-lutiouship hatkaon th' Dvisior ard Station
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0 f
Sta
J0i Xr
1Y am
Ps De 4$
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Chfofe Jn tha fleld, to 6 groatar extant than Dr GottlIob; woula 0
1 2 Tha last thIng I am dolng 18 ImpugnIng hlo voracity ard
hlb tastlmony _
Mr Daron . Whan You say It 10 not the Way do busicor9
5 you moant aay It wab your undarstand Ln ganaral Agency
practlcd that tho Chlot of Statlon Jn 4 Bftwation ik0 thls
muld ba axpacted to chack back wIth llaadquartare?
Mr _ Twaody . Whan 4 Chfaf of StatJon Wi0 givon tho authorft}
to cerry out bomothing ontlrely hfe owm Inftfatfve, chat
wa $ inade qufto cloar I 'm not talking about thfo cajo , I mCa1
gouura ]ly thfs wa 8 nadl0 7ufta cloar.
3
Mr Barol Whan You Vor 0 tlkicg alxut tha {act tha t
8 ~thlg wa$ cot chd way tha : Wo {enerc [ Iy ad buaine98 You wet -
Jot raforring to tha fact tha vou vould hava nada It ahsolute'
axpllcit r any convarsation with
Siamey iab}
or unyhody
1fko him wto wa8 urdertaking a sangitfve miggfon tha : Eho Chft
of Station would be oxpected to chuck back?
Wobdy . If I had not mertiored thig Si25ay 6ottli
8
and he 94 Id I did not , I am Derfactly nranarad to blieve N;_
C it would be because it revar occurrad to Nx thef thd Chiof 0:
8
Station would act ic ary othar wav Tha + 19 it.
Mr . Dawson of cour ge , Xr "ledgemar 4 1 s0 testifiad chet
it GVer would have occured o his to hav e carried thig out
without having ckecked back ar ! he did 80 of ccur90 ; che
cah]es #I] show that Verv' c]ear]! , Wha +: wd ara tryir Ko {c~:
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Yo
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8
on 4b axactly Yht Mr _ GtEla5;convoyod Ar . Hadguman ,
{
Yhfch, of courao coula not tobtity co , 3
Twoady . I could not
Mr . Daron . Or what You J4 Id to him.
Mr . Twoady _ 1 think St 10 qufta PObbIblo that I did not
6 Bay o Mr _ Got€1iob , Sid; tor Haavan S sako , do not hvo the
Chfot of Statfon go oft 488488Inatlng thfo {0llow wthout
8 roforrlng back to Haadquartors . It would novar hava occurrad
9 to Mo to do that It would hava baan , Jn my vIow , suporf luoua
Mr . Dawbon You ara, of couroa , avato tha t Mr Wllodgarar
10
1] Va 9 awara of thf8 practlca In thu Aqency?
; Mr TWaady _ Certa Lnly .
3 Dawson had Rean tha+ happen Ho td on)y boar:
1:
Station Chfof for 4 ghort timo ; Ln 8pita of that, ha wag s+i1 )
16
1 $ aware of Agancy practicd?
Mr . Tweedy _ thlnk tha € 56 would be perfactly trua to
Bay that any clandegtine 8arvicas officer who had raachad a
}
carteir saiority Jn fiold axperlence whethor he Va 5 Chigf 9'
Station or not, he wou ]d have suckad this in with g mothar 5
milk _ We Ydre, 1 f I may say so u very disciplined ornaniza + : >
in tha t raqard _
"r DJawsou Specifica ] ly #S to Mr Mladgeman , tha + wou1v
apply to hin als0?
Xr _ Teedy It won]e irdoed
Xr. Baror Lu: us proceed than 6o 4 documart Wa wil] n
2
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Mr _
You Mr .
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20
ExhIblt J , WhIch L8 a cablo from Brongon Tvaody to the Chfof
1
1 2 of Sttion for hfo oyob only on September 22 , 1960 .
1 (Tha docunent roforrad
to Wab marked Twoed]
5 Exhlblt No _ 3 for
6 Jdontfticatlon: )
7
8
1 6
1
1
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Mr . Twaady . Thfe 1a mostly discussfon of
[2lrog
{
1 Mr Baron Tho man You roforrod to Vaa at thfb eima an
agont that Haj In contact ulth tha Chfot 0[ Statfon?
Mr Tvaady . I ramamber hm vary Va1. I could not Poga I b] Y
ranombar hfo nama . I remambor hlm vary #o ]1, I mat him lator
Ar Baron Ila provad to bo 2 hfghly effactiva agant for
the statfon?
Mr Tvaody _ Ito Ha 9 4 vory good Inta) [ (qenca agont , an
axcellant Intalliqancd agont, tha 0 Implo rad 8011 that ha
4ag able co mako cortact Hith groupg and madla Ln tho Congo
Ynlch Was dff f fcult for non-Africanf to roach . Mla Vab ,
4 Yoar or two 4 firg:-cla 9s In+u! [{nocca 8ourco ba 9 [ca ] y :
uot an1 actfor gource, but 45 ntsllioonco aourch
"r Barcc. When You raaci tha genfuuco that is at tha
bugfnnlng 0 f naragraph I} on tha tirgt Pago whare Jt gay9 ;
Concur thib posbibi]fty worth watching but f€ docidad supnor
for
Yarnor objectives _ Believe egguntia ) such bb provided
chrough third {dtiora l chacna ) #lth PnpRI:IF role complete] v
{ concaa led _
Mha 4r ? You rcferrirg :0 there?
4r Twsedy amn #ot sura; 1 dlo 90+ ramenbcr Ao #ct
rcca ] ] what th: i"comirg cable gaid .
'ha: 4m olviously Scyiag 18 Rxotosfe] ha :/ aues 9 4::
Eetiata Vjf6 wko wus J t l6ast haci icer 2Ttara tavatton
ewvoxact think whn : wa 3 sdyinc 18 , 1: v0 wantad 60 1s4
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1 Jo
1 Iscleureu} dtrectly In In ab8e8bInatIon attempt, that I vould
1 not d1m[88 Jt out o2 hand .
1
Baron . mould ba concernod about Ito bocurity?
Mr . Tvoedy . Absolutoly_
5 Mr Baron You thon mould bay tha phraad YQPROP objoc-
6 tIvoo" muld rafar to an 888488Inatlon attempt?
7 Mr . Tvaody . Xoo
8
Mr . Baron _ That the 480488LnatIon , dfacusslon of an
9 488a88Ination attampt, Va8 beIng rostrIctod to tho 'YYQPROP
chaunol ?
Mr Twaudy . Yog .
Mr Baron . On tha last Pago of chfs documant
Twaedy . Tha on ly thfng tha : vorrias abut thfg
conclus fon of mino 18 thfs , the mora I raad It, 2-8 59 anothar
Paragraph, Yhich may not have had anything to do with @aboctorg
at 41 1 and I do not faal 4t laa 9+ I cannot rucollect why
any laaks mould a Imobt certa Inly hava included the Fronzl
1f @abotr3rtd
were involved ir thfs. Thug , I an frclinad to
8
fcel I am talking about sonebody 2Ise a:d not #tbatzazid
Ar Maror:. I will represeut *2 Jn ocher cable traf(ic ,
I belfove, which Wa wil] revfew 4 8 48 procaed hera, ther 9 was
fgcuggfOn 0 f the 490 0f ano
Mr Tweady Thig Vas prohbly tho ca9u. { do not think
0y
thig rdferg to lidhetottd B here I do not think rafars to
nahottolea cannot reca ] ]
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Mr . You
Mr . mo
Yo'
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31
I
Hr _ Baron . Wo? 1
YQPROP objactlvos vould otI}l rofor to explorlng PobeIbflfftes
to an abbe88Inatlon attompt?
Mr . TYoady . Yo8 ,
Mr _ Daron _ mf9 may refor to exploring It with; 4
6 dfffarant agant?
Twdady _ Ya8 .
Mr _ Daron . On tha last pago, paragraph 1 , It callo the
Chfe € of Station : 4 Not intondad You conatrua abova coment.s
4 8 basIcally nagativo. and collaagua undorgtand Yo cannot
road over your Bhoulder 4 8 You Plan 4 8 7080 opnortunft08
Our Imary col:carn must ba corcaa [murt Pndut"f rol unl9s8
outstanding opporturity enarqaa whfch maka8 ca ]culatad ria%
firet Cl488 bet _ Ruady untartaIn ary 86r [0u8 pronora ] 0 You
mko ba 8ed our hlgh rogard bth Your profagsiona] judamants _
Wha t ard You re ferring to In tha + paragraph? Imat mogBaqe
aro you corvaying to the Chiuf of Station?
Ar Twoady Wull_ I think 1 f you rdad} the cahle You will
{ uotice tha t We have found difficulty with 4 numhar his
0 proposa 18 Thagb wer & exn loratorv nronosa ] g I Wanted
aron . For carrying 0 f f an 489as9ination pisgfor?
Mr _ Twoedy . You keap coming of f wfth an a984a9[ntion
migaiu: 48 1f this wa 9 alwayg just 4rourd tha corner Wha t 1
am say ing i9 , We are In 4 pcriod here commor: ir our
buginc8y 0 € very irtangfva oparatfona ] plarning ard] axplorat ic1
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Ar .
You
and
pr
of
Kr .
qu [ **
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8 32
All borts 0f thlnge Vero comIng P trom the fJeld . I had 1
2 commanted on It hare/ In tho and , I Bay , do not bo dlocouragerl
1
bece480 You do not 080 tho probabla channal wa 0Ill u80 , I
488 umo tho colloaguo waa {5"d`Goteliab; bacaube I gu0bb ha Wa8
ItIll thoro .
6 Mr. Baron . The {Irot EImo ho had not arrIved , but had You
alroady cablad Lhat hfo arrlval Vab ImnLnont?
8 Mr _ Tveady . I a80Wta Ehat that 10 tho colleaqua . I do
not thluk wuld hvo talkad to anybody 0ldo On Jt. That 18
Jv 411 Jt maans .
It 5[ You Iko , 4 tachnIqud ot manaqamant
5
Mr _ Raron . Moving on 1_ documurt tRat wb wfll mark
Exhfblt 4 , tha #oxt cable , 18 Alen W Dullos 0f Saptamber
14 24 , 1960 and Your Daeudonym 18 &]80 Igtad 4 8 ono 0f tha Benders
of tha cabla to tho Chfaf of Station .
(Tha documont rofarrud
to wag markud Tweady
Exhibit No 4
0
Idertif icatlor.)
c
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ho
18 ,
to
{rom
for
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8 J 3
0 Mr . Daron _ In thfo cable , In tho [Irat paragraph , It 9a %S :
1 #Ish givo avory poseIbla oupoort In GHm(natlng Luumba
4 (ron any poss[bf ]fty robuming govarnmanta] poaftion or 1f ha {0 | 13
In Laop maaning Loopoldvfllo "9atting him8a ) ( In Stan]ey-
VIllo or oloovhara
Ffrat, for tha rocord , any tima Your peaudonym Jadwin 0r"
your nama "Twaady appoar8 in tha upper lofthand comor 0f 4
cabla or your sgnatura ePpoar8 on tho bottom , you dfapatched
tha t cabla? Is that not riaht?
[ am roforrinn gunara lly :o tha cabl0 trafeic.
Yr . Tweady_ Wha + Jt maar8 19 thi9 Tt cou ]d Maan Severc |
thinog , hut personaly Hctated tta cahle dfapa tchad i :
without ther referunca, or for soma roa8on I constructad t-
1 Cable aud had ft released by a highur authority , 0 [thor Ar
8[8Ba) ) or Mr Dullog _ Although thoso Hore not cha on ly alter-
ntivog , ff my nama wa9 on it, I was connectod wfch 1t In ony
or anothar
I would gues 9 tha t I dictatad tha cabla and that "r 3u)
1
and 1 do Got any idlua how this camg about Ar Dulles
Harted to Sa0 it , 4ud Mr "issa]1 suggas: tha + ft 70 0uf
from Ar Du] l-s a: mySelf , 1 ust do Iot kaow Nha + thi s
meafs 19 , Du]as a1d Tweedy w-ro tota ) lY awar+ cah) <.
Ar !aron. urair ttan to thc sur encd cif81 {ro#
cke cablc whcre You Tu) 1+5 Were talking about nivicc c:er
DOb s i6]d swwpor + i: c]m] ati:: L,umumba wha r mdsgane
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"No
and
fur
form
1 68
ha Ve
94!
0 f 7h4
Vet
8,.d]
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8
34
Mr . Tweody . PElleInating Lumumba any PO8BIbIIJty 1
rojumIng govarnmanta [ pobftion . Thfs , 1q I may say 00 , rovort 9
to cha origina ] Inatructfon {rom Mr _ Dullos which
Vad that
U.s _ poeftIon Waj that Mr_ Lumumba mujt bo romovad 4
5 poaltion ot authority In tha Congo and that 488a86InaEfon 4as
not by &0y Maano tha only wey by whIch thfa mIght bo accamplIahad _
Thfa , I thInk, marely refterates
that It f8 not 4 bo(ng
YQPROP cabla not refer Bpaclfically to 488488Ina tIon
Daron Hould thfe cablo, In usna Ehe phras0 "Imfna
tIng Lumumba In thle context contamp l4 498488ination 48
4t leabt ona of tho Po88 [bla Mee [18 tha: minh: ba #ad? {
Tweadly . I am 2 id 1 f I mz y saY 90 You aro puttino
8
word8 iv my Inouth Thi $ 19 oxactly Iha : It say8 Ha two
mog84908 now from Mr DYu] 189. The first 0n6 , [ thick , wa8
perfectly claar Siucu then he hag had m4894708 from Mr
Dulles 8ubordinatas lika mygo] € . Thfs Meralv make8 It clear
aga In tha + 'loadquartorg Hisheg to ~givo uvery Dosgible bupport
In elimilating Lumumba From any poggibflity regumirg qovarnnun <:
{ psition acd caurot 92y mor- cha [: thc + , &udl T think to gav
that this stresscs 455495i.2.i01: wom])" J: 'uita u#true Dut +n
Chief of Ste in Leopc ]:vile wag 4 ) ready uder inatructio:
to De consi lerit;q this 49 0:5 0 f the pss ibilitiss_
Ar Buron. 1ss499 + ior?
Nr 'wee'lv This dobs #ut ckand= +Fa +
Mr . naro , [ think tnc [s fin
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from
1
tha
Erom
doeb
Mr .
to
Mr . fra
ha 9
10n
i4
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1
35
1 Tho Interosting
aaPect o2 that bentonce {or 10 ehe
{ 2 rabt 0f tha bentonce wharo It makos It clear that not 10 1
there 4 coucorn abut Lumumba bolnq abla to roeumo hfa posftfon
Ln Laopoldvflle, but anywharo elbo , and It muld Boam that
5 4884884nation muld at loast havo to be Ono ot vory {av moano
6 tht could Inbura that {act tht Lumumba would not robuma 4
poltlon ot powar anywharo _
Mr . Twaady _ I do not thInk 1 can commant any [urthor _
Mr Baror Lat 49 Introduca 49 Exhfbft 5 4 cablo
tchod {rom tha Chfaf of Stutfon on Santambar 27th , 1969
for your bY08 and thf9 cabla bogfca wfch a roforance to
{dr . trotr166 ;
It 8aY9 ha W48 corkacted 26 Septamnbor
on samg Wavg
lelgth _ It continuag , "Munca balfuva most rapId actlor
cong fgtent wlth Becurity Indicated _
'The Hexc Paragraph say9 , "Rasis 2 t1k9 conbidering
P08g Ibflftfa8 ther+ folowg 4 1fst o f Do98ibf l ltleg
A to G and paragraph } on tha bottom 0 f Paqe says , Plar
{
proceed 0" basis prforiti 4 5 listed ahovb ur) 499 Irstructed
to cQ1: trar:.
(The documen: refarrud
to wa9 marKod TVoedy
Exhihit Vo 5 'or
Idsn+inication .)
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Mo
only
dfopa
only,
"Na
Ther
from
59
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L
36
Mr . Daron . Doaa that Indicato to that on tho Hot 0 f 1
Prioritid8, prlority A would hava boan cons[dorad by tho Chfef
1
of Station to bo hfe prlorfty?
Mr Tweady _ Can You read, by tha way , Paragreph 2 : Ba 9 i 9
5 2 tlko con81daring pogeIbflftlos ^ o{ dfopatching [ahaoEu}
6 to Stanlayvfllo and taking rofugo
a tha & would ba rofuqa , voula
It not?
Mr . Baron . Yos 0 Roca 11 shotogrb rom Stanlayvffla"
Mr .0Txeady . "and havo hlm taka retuge MIth DIq
Brothor"
Mr Baron . "Nould chub ect 43 rodo man co brush UV
data f18 to razor AIgo woulc] provIda Info on {ood ana
13 agrIcultural problam Guthman racallng FSzhatiokd to L,eop
} Whon Dr Gott11eb lookad at chfb cable, ha tobtfflod that
this cabla Indfcated that ha arrfvad In tho Congo on che 26th
26 of September _ He had two talks wich tho Chfet ot Statlon wher e
1 " thoy dfscuggad varioug operationa ] Po89 [bflltfas of gottIca rid'
of Lumumba The lettar A rapragonfad thefr ton prfority Plai
0 Nould: You agree with thz : interpretatior 0 the cab] e?
Mr Twoudy wou14 think 90
Mr Baro Noult
Mr . Twoudy _ When Says : PT4n procdad be9[8 prio}
Itids 48 1isted abova this aaa no- Hhat hr Wa 9 qoin
do at tha corclusjou 0 f thi g without furthar refarorce carr'
out an 498d99i tior: He BaY $ wha t Wa Sae [slsklotrafla t};
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0ib2'
You
top
0dga .
You
he on
in 18 0('
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37 8
bost anever to our problem _
8
Xr Beron Doog he not Indicato In thfb cablo though 1
that ho could procaad to Implemant theea nlana unlos8 ha Vero
Inatructod to tho contrary? In othar words , thlo vory cablo
5 mIght congtfeuco hf roquast 4 con { [rmatlon .
Mr _ Twaady . I dIeagroo . I thInk thobo varJoub Po8bfbfl { -
7 tiob B+I1) furthar exploratlon J0 what he Wig suggeating
8 to lleadquarters_ ho concantrato on,tbat Jo ehe bobt PobsIblo 030
9 ofTsahotrastalon thfg Includirg furthar oporational Intalffgance
0h tha BItuatior Khich miqht laad to an agraamant that Yo Won ]d{
488 thf8 man , oud thac 41l thoaa othare , hur ft doa8 not {r an "
s6nb8, far 4 9 I concarnad , Jt 19 Mo: 1n4 Jrv 8enso tha
Chfo € Statio gay 1n9, 5f ^ Jook8 torribly rood [ Bha ) 1 juat
go ahead and finfeh tha job uithoue furthur rofaranco mt
41l
Mr Baron I do not undarstand how You can road cht phras-
"uol68g Inetructad to tha contrary n tha t Way
Mr Twoudy _ Becaug8 there ar0 other poss [bflitfes hare
{
1 am sorry , hut 1 am a fraid lookino at it fftoon Yearg later
fn the gubject tha are argaed in, T thick You would Took
at it entircly differenty thar would working OII 4 4av-f0-f4:
mattor with the Chief o f Sta+ ior: There i9 ahsolucelv not} i %1
i[. thiy cabla Khich say that thay ha ve ~ha answer tc
(ichotsocedfe u8 =
'r Haru; Docs paragrapt A Indicato tha (Gchowroqea] Vow )
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tor
nead
am 45
of
at
You}
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Ton5e35
J8
take refuga WIth Bg Brothor , meanIng movo Into Lunumba 1
entouraga? 1
Mr .' Twaady . I thfnk probably thfb would bo 7~ I 4m trylrg
to thfok how thfs Wab
06
Wab thfs pobslbly [ntgoyp
Mr . Daron I do _ not Xnov tha operetlontl deta I10 .
Twoady . He AJd havo Somo acc0be to Lumumba 0 antour-
8 sg3 which 4a8 tho reabon wo Waro 80 Interastad _
Mr Baron _ Hould Yo4 ab8umo that thfe cabla 10 suggostina
that EaoEcOtEo bo rocallad to Leopoldvf]lo 80 tha € ho mIght
mova Iato ILumumba 8 ontouraqa
Mr Twdady Abgolutely .
Mr Baron Whare t gay 8 ha would thub 4ct 48 fnsido M: :_
14 to brugh up dotafls to razor would You as8umo that: raf$r s
co oxplor tha meang by whfch Lumumba mIght pofgonad?
Mr Twaody I thick th: 18 quIto 4 DosgIbflity . I carrc:
spacf € Ica lly gay Ye? I gugpoct wag our bast potontia] gourct
operationa ] {ntelliqonce, if You 11k0, on thfs _
Then ha say 8 Algo would provida Into on food and aaricm} -
cura [ problems I hav e 4 vaqua reco]lection a + thla poin ttc'
h= Kd $ raporting rather importantly on 4spects of foodl and
agriculfurt which Hag 4 ma jor nolitical factor within cho Co; 1?
cher: cannot put t ary more clearly thar :ha t_
I think It is tha + thig Wom?? bd a byproduct 0 f this th:
wc wou].] qet mor: ranor ting on the suhiect _
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Mr .
0dge ,
bo Ing
ho
{or
qood
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8
J9
Rr . Daron . You moula read that bantonce IItorally Inotoad 0
1 2 of an oblique reference to gottlng acCo88 to Lumumba 8 food by
whlch he mIght polaonad?
Tvaedy . I mould road It much moro 1ftorally than tha +
5 Ar . Baron Lot 4b turn thon to ExhIblt 6 , whfch 10 4
6 cable [rom the Chfet 0f sttlon on September JOth to Jadwin,
7 vhIch fo yoursol: 5
8 (Tha docunant rafarrod
9 to Wa0 marked Tweady
1 Exhblt No 6 {or
Idontf fIcetlon . )
}
1 5
1 6
1
1
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be
Mr .
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8
Ar . Daron Jn which cho Chfet 0f Statlon sayb ! No
8
roa lly afrtight op Po8sIblo uith abots now avaflabla _ Muet 1
1 choo8o batwoon cancelling op or accopting calculatad rloku
of verylng degraos . ~
@choEECE8fbast aagat ava [Iablo. Vlow nacassIty
Lmmad Iately, ft .a a11, urga lloadquartorn authorfza axploratory
convarsatlon8 Eo dotormina J€ 9 @WOtEOCCowLIIArq taka rola 8 0
active agont or cut-out thls op
Firet, would you read tho Bontanc0 or tho phraba "viow
nacossfEy act Immadiately , 1€ at 4 ] 1 " t0 ratar co tha fact
that at thfg polnt Gotti7ab had irornad tha Chi9; of Sta+Ior
tha € tha latha ] mat eria ] w49 4 Timfterl 1ffa?
Mr Tweedy 1 carnot rad]ly commant on that Thar 19
cartairly a per
factiy reasonabld explanatlor tor tha t ramark
but 4 8 I d0 not Krow axactly whera Lumumba B4t on that prticu-
lar momant when this cabl& wa 9 gont, ft miqht hava aomathina
to do with hfg availabflfty or gomathicc el3+ , I just do
KrOx
{ Certe inly first point 19 2 nos9 ihi Lity It S(ua ] ] :
kos clcer 0 f course , that 4]thouo: {oshotqof /0 ha ! 5 +
Ma
0:=14+i0.a [ intellidenc- sunnor: ro ] 6 , he this Do ic:
i4 an
har! "4Vor hcor: cut in 01; plans _ 0} f cour9e chie' 0f Station
whoiher k- wou- 94 wiflicg ~C 70 4Or:g with th: :
Jd %:.cw
9& : ', 3 Iot
Xr Maroi: Th- Ch} y f 0 { Stfio:: hcra j9 c2:si4erfe 21.
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act
0f
not
Your
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a t
no:
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3
"Pproach tolsaboeros4 fIrot on 4 hypothotfca ) ba 0 16
{
11 Mr _ Twaedy . Yod .
1 Ar . Baron . It Io cloar here , 10 It not that [abousoqeal
Js balng vfowad 48 4 potantfal 4b94 Inatfon a880t?
Mr . Tweady _ Indood .
Ar Baron . Lot ug Introduca 4 B Exhiblt 7 4 cablo on 30
Soptambor 1960 sIgnad by Glan Flalds to tho Chfet ot Statfor
8 agaIn Jn tho YQPROP channo] _
9 (Tho documant raforrod
16 to wa] markad Twoady
Exhfhft No 7 for
fdan: {'ication 1
1 €
2
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42
1
Mr Baron umably, Jt 18 rebpondIng to tho cablo tha t
1 Jubt lookad and In thfe cablo, Ffalde say8 ,
ara authorfzad hava oxploratory ta lk8 M; th [docond] to
483090 hfb attftude toward poba Ibla actlva aqent or cut-out
rolo.
Nould you 488uma that Glan Flelds conaultod You botoro
Bonding thlg authorlzatfon
to tho Chfaf of sutlon?
Twdady _ Not nacasbarily . I mIght hava boon out 0{
tow} that As You WIl] notico, 411 ha Jays I8 , ~You ira
authorfzol hava exploratory tlko" <and #Ich You Inltla )
dfscusslona should ba on hypotheticel babf& _ And , 0f
courea , 4t that pojut: , w8 wou]d expact 8 raport chu fe]d
0#; how It wont. 46 wa 9 takiug It Or; 0 furchar Ho mIoht
mot cleared tha : with me ff I Varj away Ha mIqht 4 [ 80
parhapg cleared ft wfth Mr Dfss0 1 1 _
Mr Barou Ag Your Deputy , i: would have pPor fect ] v
proper In Your #Yes for Glen Fields to hava Is9uod thfs cab) +
without consulting You?
1 Tweedy _ rertainly _ It i$ qui:e possiblo , too tha:
eVel: told Mr "iss2]] wkt h? N4? plarriro 60 do caot
tel] SVcci!ica This i$ 4 ] ] tht this cabl& auchoriz-8
1 f ird it etiraly Witbin hig dlel-74fed Fagporsibilitias
naro: No')d it havi sedular procudura
(;1044 Fleldg , in Your ahsence, Aautior to Richard 9i9s6 ) !
fact that such authorizdtion to ha unt to +he Chiaf 0 f Statio.:
TOP SECRET
Prab "
Ho at , Glen "You 1
Mr
day
"Aqree
fron
stop
hava
nave
beon
"r .
he
You 11Y.
4r.
heai: for
to
4
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an excoptIonal and son8[tIvo mLesion Iko thfe ona? 8
1 r Toody . 1d You Bay that agaIn?
1
Hr _ Baron Would Jt hava baon standard procedurd for
Ffelds to chack with Afosal] In your abbonca baforo ho Banf auch
cable?
Mr Tvoady . No _ Flold ' 8 undoratandIng of hlo 4uthorltfas
and hls ralatfonghfps with tha DDP on Juch mattars Yaro exact l?
the 04ma mina . vould havo 8oon Oyo oya wIth hlm
Mt I had 8ont tho cablo, undoubtadly I would hava lot
Mr Dis8e] 1 that I Wib plannra to carry thlg thnq that
much cloggr . Th0 roaron tha + 19 tha + Ho wora nattina clos:
;
to Informiry 4 third perty the * thf9 Wja Ir tho wind _ Thoref0} '
ba actuelly took thfs atep, I think omu thing Iiko
chfo, & :#frd Party bsino[Bcnatocdd
tape 2a Mr Daron Ag Exhiblt 8 , wa wIl] [m+roduca 4 cah] 9 or
october Tth, 1962 , from the Chiy€ o€ Statin to Jadwir, vhlch
18 yourself .
(The documan: rg ferty!
to wa 3 marked Twaady
Exhfbit 9 for
ident [fcation.)
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on
Mou
48 Ho to
know
for
fore Ya
No
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8
0 Mr Daron Thfa cable bagIno MIth 4 rolaronco to 84anoy
{ 2 Goet1 Gb ; and ha ! "Dopartad Laop tor PBPRIME 5 |octobor _ vfow
1
explratlon data hla ma torlals _ Howovor Iaft cartain itumg 0f
continulng usofulno8s . Guthman plane contInua try Imploment
5 Op .
6 Do You havo any independant racollactlon ot racafvIng
thfo cablo?
Mr Twoody . know _ It' 8 torribly hard whon You 808
somethnq that clearly occurrad and to Mo I road , ft' 8
terribly hard at thlg gtage _ to Bay , 0f couroo I romambar . It ~] 1
red8 Perfoctly tamfliar Ma now To s4y quita Bpac [ f Ica ]ly
I raca} ] raceivfug tho cablu will parha 8 70 a IIttl heyond
my memory .
Mr Baror _ nabed upon havIng raad thf9 cable a € that
time , Yhfch You 48gumu You did , 19 tha t corruct?
Mr Twoody _ Ahsolutolv
Mr Baror . You wou ld} have know tka : #An6y Gottlfeb ha:
laft the congo on October Sth and tha che Chief 0f Sttfon
{
plarnud to coitinue try to Implemant tke operatior
Mr Twoddy Which maars that ha Yould continua his
oxplorator? operationa [ work 906 1f ha could] cona co aom-
B0 ] ut io:
r Ier Qi: won )a road tha + Ranta-ce ati) ] to alv
S to 40 exploratory pha 91 a phasd in wbich the Chief 0 Stafia
Was explorin the feasfhi]fty of d93499i1.4 : Lumumba a $
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to
to
to
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opposad co Mov to ImplemantIng?
1
Mr . Twuedy . Abbolutoly. Undor no cIrcumstancas anythIng
1
0o
Mr Davoon . Ba Bod upon thfa Exhlbft 4nd tho provlous ono
5 thon , Ar . Tvoedy , 10 It your OpInfon that In thfo caje no agont
6 Va8 ovor 4aked to 4sbaobinato Lumumba ?
Mr . TVoady . Irdaad _ Tha t 4180 coIncfdas MIth my
6 bost roco ] loction whlch not 411 that damn good . Ic Is
9 perfactly obvlous tha" #choceocraiwa s navar raquasted to
4834 80{M4 t0 Lumumba I hava no racollection of anybody
havng autl a akad co do thfg _
Mr Dawaon Whother :hd dlgcu88f011 wa 9 hypothotica l , a $
outliled 1n tho provloug oxhibit.
Mr _ Tweedy _ Yes 04
Mr Dawgon 19 it ohvfoug tha t schotLoetawa $ rever
askad E0 499499iretc Lumumba In 1ight of ths s4ntenca in th[s
cable tha t raad8 _ Although (lid not pIck up ba ll , rafarrin?
to thc fact tha t iebotroFt@i d id not nacussdr [ ]y plck up the
ba } 1 O%: 49sd98fna t Lumunba in his conversation with tha C"
0: Station:, the Chfof 0 { Stc+io: nVerthe] +S9 bel ieved he
prepared taka ary role necessery within {mits 9ecur ity 4ccc
Plish objeceivc
"oas Ehc t :ot imicdte tka [Scbocrocig wa 9 at Jea gt Yo?
0 H somcole 'ho Yd3 ~nered 60 undertake 2: 495499 inctfor
i f hc shou} hc tagked with it?
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Yag ,
18
ard
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Mr Twaady. I did not say ho Va8 not . mfo 4t that tlme 1
18 tha Chfat ot sttion 0 bost 4b0 J0mant of Yha t tha [eaboesagta
1
roaction would ba 5 { tha thfng 4ib torm ]y put to him S0
bluntly that ha undaratood ontfroly what Jt wa 8 4 11 about _
do not racall, I do not bolJovo 4ny of thfa rasidua ] traffic
Indfcatos that Jt ovor got 80 far that Wo dld that, and I thick,
my ow bollof 18 It 18 4 50-50 proposItion on whothar Eidhorowda}
vould agrao to do ft I think probably In "Imftb bocurity
accomp]fsh objactfva 18 probably tha controlling factor.
caunot roa]ly raca]1 anymora
Mr Dawgor 0f f tha record
5
(Dfscugsfon 0 f f tha racord . )
Mr Baron . Back on tha racord
Thfg report on October Ith by the Chiaf 0 f Statfon rafars
back to thu uxploratory convar8atlong that ho montloned ha
W48
Mr . Twaedy Implied to by Fields
Mr Baron auchorized by Fieldg in tha praviouB cah}
{
th: Joth _
"r . Twoedy . Rickt
Xr Herom 19 Exhibit 9 , Wg wil] introdlc0 8 cah]o 9](c
by I} Tweedly to ths Chitf of station ir the YJraor channe]
(The documert relorr
c0 Wa9 markad Tweadv
Exhibf+ :o 7 tor
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IdontffJatelon: )
2
1
5
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7
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16
1 "
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1 Mr . Bron_ It bagIns, "Had good dlscusalon your colloaguo
1 Octobor . Commonts tollow !
~^ Bo aaburod did not axpact YQPROP obJoctivo
bo reachad Jn Bhort par Lod and under 8tand curront #Ituation
tully warranted roturn your Colleaguo .
And than It continuos to diocubg tha {act that You vero
cons IdarIng dlopatching 4 thfrd country natlona ] operator and
8 JonJor caso officor from tho CIA who would thfo Op and
outeIda agant tull tIma undar Your dlractfon _
]c; [oa9 thfb cabla rofor to tho fact tha € You dobrlefod
SIdnay Gottlfab?
5
Mr Twoody . I am Rure ft doag . That 19 what Jt musf be ,
Y69 .
16 Baror_ The EJrat Paragraph 19 neant to Indicata Fha +
1" tho Chief of Station Bhould not fuel that Haadquartere Yould
20 bo disappointed 1n thd fact that hg did not pufl off
a9s2sgInatior missfon Jn such a ghort per Iod of tImu?
Mr . Tweedy . I want to ba careful co how I roply to chat
1
A)l 1 wag sayicg to 4 profasgfona [ collaaque Wag tha t
hed no illusfo;s about thb fact tha che plannina Opuration
o f thfs Hould bc dff ficult, at bag: and would taka +imc
and thoroughly a9* ee with tte {act that progpects , immadlat &
prospects wer0 such tha + there Wd 9 Vo a ] *arrativa Si nev
~Gottlieb to raturi. Tha + is 4 ] 1 [ was saYing
DJut to Bay 'hat I Wus trving :0 exur0ss to him wa $ th4
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an
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tact that Vo Yoro not ovarly dlbappointed that Lumumba Va8 not 1
{ 2 ab8a e1nated at tho pofnt Io Just not the lavol of Intorcour 8 &
1
tha t I had wIth 4 very protossIonal Chlzt ot Statlon _ Tha t 19
411.
Mr Baron . Doae not tha paragraph' ^ hero Indicato that
6 tho obJoctlva of tha mlseJon tha Wa8 dlacuseod Jn tho YQPROP
channe] wab to is8a08Inato Lumumba In VIow or In Ight ot tha
fact that {cottriab}had gono to tha Congo #Ith ma tarfal that
Yoro only golng to ba Jatha 1 tor 4 bhort Porlod o} elma?
Mr Twaody . Tha t Js what Jt 8aYs .
Mr . Daron In othar worda , what I am trying to oxplora
wIch You 59 your charactor [ zatlon ot thla entire staqo :ha
OperatIon 4 9 one of plannIng and axploration whon V0 know tha
Gott)fab took matur falr to tho Congo whlch would" only b0 Jethu [
1 {or a Bhort parlod of timg and pr eaumably V8 prepared to move
from exploratlon to Implamentation?
Mr Twuady . If , 4 8 a rcault ot tha Statfon focus
the Problum for the firgt time, 19 a ragult 0 f Haadquartars
8 roquest, they had come up with 4 pla n tho: they thought Ha 9
oxceedingly s0]i4 ard wkich eadquartars a:provad ft 19 not
surpr [9inq , Perhaps , tha t Wa waated ths ma+#ria] 9 tharu to ta' .
advantaga 0f suck, 1f You 1fk0, & [1 44 likoly avant But this
You)d cof chante th? Jiorma } 94' uenc # avants , whfch wou ld
chz tha Statior: woulrl uxplord. Xaan leadquarterg informar' _
'loadquarterg wou]d coinmont, it would than ba a cragendo of
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agreamant or no agreemont a€ 411 rabulting {rom ethar 0 [AIn] 1
2 request for aPproval or oIthar approva] or no aPproval . mh [ 8
1
would not ha va changed _
Mr Baron _ Boca 4bo
@ott10ob
took lotha ) mterla 18 to
tho Congo wIth hfm that had such 4 sbrt porfod 0f latha H4ty ,
Yero You not contamplating at chat tIma that tho oparatlon
mIght woll Movo from tho axploratlon phaso to tho Implenontatfon
phae0 Juet 49 oon 88 Gottlfebjand Hodqaman detormlnod Ehat It
4a0 [04bfblo?
1 (1 Mr Twoady _ I thfnk I would Put It qufta d{ ftarontly .
I thfnk that I wou ]d gay that Wo would havo baen ramfo8 In G.Ot
;
ba fng Jn & pos [ tfor to uxploft, 0f wo raached tha pofnt whary
8 1: Ya 41l agroud tha t tha thfng Wa 8 Poba Ibla
J ; I€ they had merely gone ovar and sa id w8 chlrk wo car 40
1 : It, by Khy do You not sond tha gtuff from Headquartars , tha +
1r would have boen sort of nong6n8 0 , ff You follov mo
Mr Daron You would have expoctcd the Chfet of
Station cable back con f irmc tior, but 1` Va 9 Carta in);
1 WIthin Your cortemplatior at tha tint chc + Yhan Gottllsb wert
to thu Corgo wher thu Chiof Sta : ior cabled corf Jrna
tion , You wou]- probably gIve hlm a 7o ahea:' 499499inat+
Lunumba ?
Mr TWeedy . 1 did Mo : that &t 4)1 _
Mr Darol If the opera:io: Kera f64sible?
Twuedy . did not say that a t 4 [1 . It wou ]d] not hav :
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9
boan my 8ay-80 I do not what tha pollcy levolb ot my 0
1 Agancy , who Jn turn would havo baen raflactod Jn tha polIcy
1 lovele 0f tha govarnmont , wou ld havo dona [ ( It had como to tha
pofnt wharo somebody 84 Id , can do do Hant uB do
5 Jt_
6 Mr _ Baron . You would hevo raforrad that to 0fs80 ] 1?
Mr Twoedy . Yob _
Kr . Daron . Ilo could hava rofarrad It?
Mr Tweady . He would havo roforred Jt accordina to hfo
HIghto . That wa 9 not my businogg Ho Va 0 hfs oyn Iava }
authority . M0 wag 48 awaru 0 f hf8 author lty 4 8 I Ha 8 a € my
Jc Val 1 only 4 8 0 uma tha : eh[ 8 wou]d hava boon diacusgad
the highogt loval, certe fr ly 4t tha Agarcv 489uma tha + the
decfsion would have had to hava bean mad6 by Alur Du ) 109 ard
Yho 0180 he wighed to corsult In Washinaton
Thage are Dure assumptiona on my part. Indar no circum-
stamC88 vou Id I have given the (jo ahea-]
Xr Dakgor Tha + is interegtinq
1 Mr BarOn I just kav6 one more questior this Tire.
recive Ws art Very closely oVer thig around Ne woi;] !
not bc dc i[q it 1{ it Were[. t important jt trying to Mot You :0
clarify the recort] exactly wha t shad& 0f maaning You wa::
to attach hare
would it ba fair :C say cha : wher tchurl Gort); :
to che corao expected co haar Lack
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It, to 4o You
0f
on
g0i no
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You
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Mr _ Twoody . I expoctod thlo vould rorult In 4 dlaloque
2 betveen tho setIon and ourbolvod 43 to what mIght bo [oabIbla .
1
Mr Baron . You Yoro hoplng?
Twaady . Gottl ob aselotIng tho Chfat of Station Jn
5 hla oxploratlono_
6 M Baron . In vIaw of tha antIro polIcy of tho Agancy
7 that tlmo , 18 IndJcatad In tho cable8 ot Dullab tha cablas
8 [rom yourdoIf and B1soal) to the Congo, You voro hopInq that
9
@ott14oband tha Chfef of StatIon mould fInd 4 teasIble mearg
1(} of carryIng out an acba88Inatfon mlasfon and thor Intor You 0{
that-
Mr Twabdy . I am not goInq to commont on tho [ 4o
Hot know what my frama of mInd wa 8 on tha t _
1& Tho purposu of tha oxarclg6 was to 800 Khothor thfg vas
1
Pog8Ible thlng waa clear , tha : I Vab tha Inatrumont 0f
pollcy In carrying out the exploratJon whfch 4ab antfroly 4
profo8sional mttar It tha exploratlon had rbached 4 pir+
Yhoro felt that we could gubm]t to hIqhor authority 4 plar
1 whfch Ha thought made Aone g0ns0 , at that nt hichar auchor]+:'
c would have to taku tho b ]1 run with It 4nd 16+ 09 knov
what choy concludsd _
Mr Baron . Dy higher authority hard, you mean any
author ty highar than yoursal €?
Mr Twuedy _ It would start with 72 In my cha ia 0f conma? !
I would not be concerned vith the Katiora [ Securitv Mvlgor
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and
hopa .
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to the PrasIdont or anybody 0190 , I w4 8 parfactIy cloar Jn my 8
1 nInd bacaube of vhat had occurrad and tho way that choed mattara
had bean broachad to' tha fJald by Mr Du] that tha thinq
4ab In cho na tJona ] arona Vab Jurt not Jn cho Agoncy' 0
arana
What Mr . Dullo8 would havo dona and what ha (alt hla
authoritfo8 Vora from hfgher authority I camiot tol] You _
Mr Dawson . Tha & wou ld hava buen 1 ma ttor that would hava
baan botweon Mr . 01sg0ll and Mr Dulles In ehat corract?
Xr Twoody . In tho firat Instanco, {+ would hava boon
botwaor Mr { ) 189 and thy outsida wor Id _ tho Exacutiva.
Nr_ Iaws01: Tha chain 0f conmarl Woi)- h,v9 baan You}
woult) ha va talke] t0 0is9e] 1 You woul not have baen expact#
or Hou]d have agkud what Mr nulla8 visw wurd?
Mr Tweedy _ Micd Yoi , wo Veru 90 an} Anency that H2 {
Very Floxible . 4m not 94ying 4r Di[ le9 might: not hava talked
to m: about thfg , tha t was bacaus: Mr _ "isgel) wa 9 not
inmad idtaly available , or 9om4:ki: tki9 kind _
Wha : I am gaying i9 the worb i01 Tove] _ .hy oparaf i9:
Tev-] the "ivigiora | a d 614 Stior 1-v- we had coma U"
wich 4 plan whick nady prof 435 i?:d ] Gens2 60 uJ which we Te):
s0und 3nouah 90 tha` w# wcu1+ "resert it to our negear s , Va
woml hav : dont 99 4rd t rysultj#t instruction 60 tha fj41
woula ve 4Jelw Oi: thoir reaceio: 4$ f4t 4 $ Va 9 conc-n:
withie the Adancy 49 far 0 9 Mr OJu ] ]es wa s concornad Can:
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and
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4:
FX
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tol } You . {
In othar words , tha dagraa to whfch ho thought ha would
hava to rofor furthar to Wabhington on , I hve no Idba
Mr Daron _ It 4a8 Your job to fnd 4 (0cB[bla way to carrv
out 4n 889489Inatfon ; Jt 448 tho Job of nigoall and thoso above
him to doc[du whothar to go hoad , 48 f4r 4 8 you waro concorned]?
Ar Tveody . As far 43 I Wa 8 concarnad , that J0 tho Yay I:
strtod _
Mr Dawgon You havo no Indepandent or spocf { Ic raco]lec -
tlon that you ovar Went to Mr 0f9011 #aid Wa do not hc ' 4
shot at thls, or do , and Wj could do It ehf8 way , ard }fn
sa Y [n7 On8 thing or anothor? Kav9 IiO reco] luct [on #f+hmr
way ?
'r Tweady . Mr 01s8611 road the Samb tra?fIc I dJd.
Xr Dawson . I dXdl not know that
Mr Tweady . Me read chaee cable8 Nhar I s4Y ha raad
every singla ono of then word for word 7 4 ] [ I cen g4y is hs
had {ull acCcss to chese ccblos ard arythir he had ot rea'] 3:
had aIv reas01i to hsli-ve hc had] #o+ read I ou ]a] have ken :i
(elera brief_ 0:; the progress of tha plating 'atura):'
he wou]d: ha Ve Vben i*erested_ Ie woul: h: : fohlowel 1
it; detail_
Ir _ nawsor. Wo']: "r . !u ] 1-9 hd! e had 4#v 4CC493 t0 cke?:
cables?
Mr _ Tweedy . Jot routirely. I thfnk hd would ha axpec:
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Mr . Blsoe11 to koop hlm orally Informod on L thlng IIko tho _ 1
Ho did not vant any mora papar {loating around In thobo
1
Dulles Wa 8 In GVan anothar buflding. W0 wero 411 dowi:
4t ths Roflecting Pool 4t that polnt, woro W0 not, and Mr .
5 Dulleb Ya 9 on E Stroot. It doosn € mka any dIfteranco . Tha
nb: 6 numbar o2 Paparb on thls YQPROP thfng woud have baen rotrIctod
to tha abaoluta mInImum . 1 do not think Mr _ Dulleb would hava
2 expadtod to bo bothorad wIth tho opera tiona) det4flo. mhat ho
vould havo axpocted trom Mr Dl8g011 wab Progreso on planoing
tho oliminatlon of Lumumba by whatovar mana
Xr Dawbon tha rontine way tha+ that Informtion
5
wou ]d] boan given to Mr Du[1e9 for Inacanco , what 1 'm
0 thinkfng Wa 9 , were there 9t4 f f meatinqs 4t which you atcardu '
Vith Bfs90] 1 in Mr Dulleg prago.iCa concernIng what wa 9
haPParIng ganera]ly on 8 routino quartor] y or veak]y ba 9 9 ?
Mr Tweedy . Mr _ nisgel) wotla hav e geen Mr Dulle8 by e:l
large svery
Mr Tavso,; They Yould not: review meetings or 8 Wouk ]% or
routire be sis?
'r ~cedy He ha ' his Owm1 std f f Mzotinq 9very mor:a7 ,
Ar Julles 4iu The9e Wore attunde his Daputy Diructors, 0
whfch 'r !isgell wa 5 O1: : .
I ugec to 9c0 Ar Bi9s=] [ K8 hc d 6 sta f f Meetlnq OICE
4 week which 4 ) ] Chisfs 0 f nivigio: attendad _ Nothing 1ike
thia wou]d he discussed 2+ those I had my Ow: prfvata mautj::
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days _
Mr . Now ,
Wa$
hav6
Mr
da .
hf
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8
#Ith hlm on Lhebo mttars whonaver Jt ooomad nacosbary by ono 1
or tho othar of 40 _
Ar _ Daron RaturnIng to tho cabla of Octobar Jth , 1960 ,
whfch You Jont to tha Chfot of Statlon, the rofaranca to 8
Janlor C4s0 officar who mIght bo tched to tho Congo, f8 chat
4 rafaranco to tho ract that Bls80l1 H8b conafdering dlopatchIna
Justin 0' Donnol[?
Mr . Twoady . No othor candIdata, othor _ I 4bbuma that
10 Yho Jt J .
Mr Daron . 0 Donnol1 0 account that ha wa9 abkad by
D1880} ) 9o to tha Conqo to carry off thu 488438fnatfon 0?
J Lumumba would fft hara?
3 Mr _ Tweedy . Sura .
Mr _ Baron The thfrd country na tJona [ roterrod to In this
cabla and In other cableg 4 8 somoona You aro cons Idor Ing
dfspatching to the Congo to help wfeh the oparation wou ld tha+
bo QJWIN or WIROGUR?
Mr Twuudy _ As I told You before, defIrftely not MDROGTUF _
0 Trogumably this other fellow whos& idontity and wht ha W2s 1 ;
very , "ery urclear to Me 03
Haror The aqent that wa 9 ru: by Inuold 811orv
Mr . Tw-edy . Thls wou [dl have beer: the ma :1 that WOu ! !
haVa Horkad with Justin 2 [Omoll 1{ jt harl 4 ] ] hapvared
Xr BarOn Thd + was QJIIN_ I will raprasalt to You Gha t
QJwIN Wa9 che aent who wa 9 8upervigad by Juatin 0 ' nonnel }
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Twoody . Wo read that that timo, whfch 5b my 1
1 rocollectlon of Jt. That I8 tha porson I am guro.
1 Mr Daron . Lat Ma corract mybal e haro .
I HI1] roprasant to You chat QJWIN Wa b tho agont chat wa &
0Z 03
rocruftod by Friala [WazHand Bont by BTTvo? to tha Congo for
480 by 0 Donne) 1 and Parhaps by tha Chfer of Statlon .
Is that conbistont WIth your racollactlon?
Wacly . No , Jt f0 not coneIstant with my raco]octlot:
It 18 cartaInly con818tant with Khat I raad tha las timo I B4w
You , whJch I havo M10 roabon to diaputa. I Just cannot romamber
the blfqhter at 41] _
Mr _ naror As Exhfbit 1 0 , let u9 Introduc& 4 cahla 0f
October 1 Sth 1960 , whlch 19 not sont in tha YQpRor channe !
It Is narkod RIAAT LAT i: cha aPaco whers sun9itivity
Judicators aro ugua ]ly placad _
(Thc document roferrod
to Wa8 markad Tweady
Exhlbit No 10
2 iden+fffcation. )
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Mr . on ly
Kr
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{
Mr . Baron . Thlo cable requobeo tha vlowo ot tho Chfet 0f
0
Sttion on suggastlone A , 8 and C for varioub covart operatlon8 1
02
1 In paragraph C, thero I8 4 rofaronco to FMROAK .
Mr . TYoody , wo havo racoIvad tho ropregontatlon (rom tha
5 CIA that that Yib 4 cryptonym ubod to rofar to Lumumba
6 Io that consletont WIth Your IntaroptatIon of tha cablo?
Kr Baron It 18 Indoad _
Mr Taady _ Thle paragraph C say9 In Part: "Only drect
action wo can now etand bohInd 18 to support [mmobo] 3ing or
02
arrot[ng MJSROAK , dab irablu 48 mora def [nftfva action nIght h2
action takon would hava Ko bo antfraly Congola8a .
Now You 8 f Jnad thf8 cahle , but It Va$ J.: sant In the
bpeca1 BenBftlvty channe tha dea ]t with Gotellab ' 8 mfasfon
to tha
Bofore dlscus8 thfs cablo , let u8 4 180 introduc0 Jcto
the racord a5 Exhbft 11 anothar cabla Yhfch You B{aned or
October 15 , 1960 which wa9 gunt In the YQCROP channel Fo the
Chfof Station .
(The docume: re'=rreri :c
2
Va 9 marked Twbe:y Exhini:
11 1ne5t]!icctic:. 1
dk
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Mr . Baron . Thle cont4 Ing tho {olloxlng Languago:
1
2 wlil nota (rom cabla through norm] channol currently botng
tranamitted" than Jt cortinuos "on YQPROP suggostlone. You
vIIl probably rocelve moro along thosa 1Inos 40 stumblIng
07
5 bloc URROAK roprosonts IncreabIngly apparent 41l studylog
Congo 8tuation closoly and hl8 dfbpo ItIon spontaneoualy
bocoma8 numbar ona congIdaration _
8 Taady _ I thlnk by that , 1 think It 18 Parfoctly God-
9 awful Englfsh .
10 Mr Daron . Tha cabla continuag
Mr. Taady . Obvfously that meang that avaryona ono ta 1*ea}
5
to 94 Jd thara 19 no solu:lon to tha Corgo 4 9 lonq 4 8 Lumumba
atayg In a pos_tlon 0t pover or Influonca thora. That 18 whc+
J; that moa
Mr _ Baron The cable continuog : Ra [90 abova 90 You rot
1( con fuBod by any apparert duplicatIon Thfs channal rama
for spocffic purpoge You discusged wfth ccl eagua and 4180
ranaius highest priority
8 Nou dou9 this pa ir 0 f cables Indicata that at thfs po int
C despite the Indfcatior: i# the firge cahle tha t Wo lookad] a f th
~direc: actfon wo'] Id be linitud to ertirely Conqolesa action
tha actua1 pogftlor of yourge] € and other 8 a t "eadquartars
Jtvolved Ir thf9 operafiow w49 tha+ axplorarion of an 4 99499 i .2 _
tion nisaior roma Ired] tha highugt prlority for tha Chfa € 0 f e
Station?
r
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Mr .
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8 60
Mr . Toedy . I thlnk thet 40 e@curato , 1
2 Ho hd como to the and of the road , It lodst-temporarIly
3 on the YQPROP irpact and {or tha tima .bolng Yo Yoro Jn no
ptlon to aPprova anythIng bue:what" Vab dfecuued In tho
cablo. Nonothelobo , 40 long 88 tho threat to tho Congo
from Lumumba oxlated , thero' ramalrod prlority to surch
for Meano to tako caro ot tho YQPROP Planalng aopocti.
M . Daron Whan tho cable refars to tho "pacfflc purpobo
dfacubgad wIth colloaguo
1 0 Mr . Tvaody . Thfo Jo abbabbInacIon #Ith Gote1fab/ 1 am
Juro'
Mr _ Daron . It than Jay8 : Thfa Purpose rema Ing hfqhabt
8 pr fority. Nould that not IndIcato Eo tho Chfet ot Stat Jon
1 $ chat ha Bhould procoad to [Ind 4 way that Lumumba could bo
1$ aba0 Inatod?
Mr Thoody . WYha t thls would moan to tha Chle 0q Statlon
j * 4a8 that ha phould rotalf exploratlon of PosaIble Beant 0[
48898inatIng Lumumba 48 hfghest prlority. Ha bhould continud
8
to 8b6k Mpang t do thia, not to do It.
2 Mr Baror . Aga in , You art maIntaining You hava Just made
1
yourbe] f claar , 49 far 48 You wart concarnad You Yura Jtfl)
4sk him to #xplora an not implamont 4 : thfs polnt?
Mr Twuodly _ Mlothie 0} 5 + but
Mr Baron . Who wou]a! havd had acca8] to or recafvud
diatributio:l o f thg fIrst cabla lookedl at whfch travollad Jt:
TOP SECRET
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ing
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9Ad3
8 0
61
1 thef EFFLAT channol?
2 Mr _ Teady . It would have boen ratrIctad , but not 40
1
3 robtrictod 48 tha othar _
Mr . Baron . Kould somabody at tho Embeboy concefvably
5
have boan cut Ln on cablo traf[ia In tha channal that dealt Klth
6
YX oparations?
7 Mr. Tweody . Could bo, cortalnly.
8 Mr Baron . In othar: vordu;; tho Porpoto 0f' Iendlng
econd cable On tho Jame whlch dealt #Ith actlon aguInat
Lumumba Vab vhat? 10
Mr Tdody . The sLmple roabon I think E4 I say I thInk ,
{ bacau8o I cannot tel1 You B0 80 I 04Id 0 Law mInutoo 4g0 ,
obvlously you'd coma tamporarlly to tho and of tho IIno on 1 13
YQPROP Moaburad takon to shora uplA415 Io posItion In the 1 4
Congo _ Mabutu would have served to bupport the general object ivc
1 :
of contalnLng Lumumba by whatavar meang It I8 411 part of tha
16
04ma purposo .
1
Once agaln referrIng t6 tha orIqlna] cablo trom Mr . Dul]49
1 Yhich 80 Id 411 meang , Jn effece, I thInk the rogor I'm
1
: putting thlg r tha opan channel _ tha opan channol 18 8t) !
1
Mr Baror. SLmply tha ordinary channel urod batwaer
yourbolf
Mr _ Twaady_ Stfl] 6 regtrictad charno] RIRAT 19 1
rebtrictad thfug , Ir: any ovant Thf8 could have_ boan afscussed
wfth tha Ambasaador or tho Emba89y , i: any aspact of It seencd
%:
TOP SECRET 313
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SII
8
62
1 approprlate by tho Chlal ot 8tatton . 1
2 m _ Baron , Dy contrast, tho YQPROP cable mould Only hava
3 badn boon by the Chfot o} Statfon?
4 M Taedy . Tha Ebaaay would not have shown thls
5 cablo anyvay. Na not show tha traftia to che Eababey} Yo
6 dIscussed It_
7 Mr . Baron , It would have boan propr for tho LAT cabla
8 to bo convayed Jn boma nner ?
9 Mr Tvaady . I bo dfscusead _
10 Mr Baron . Botwoan tho Chfet of sttlon and Per tha
Naba88ador?
Mr _ Twaady . Dfscusgod } oraIly.
8
1 " Mr _ By contraat , tha YOPROP cahla cloarly You)4
1 4 havo rostricted to tha Chiaf of Statfon?
1 $ Thaady _ I hava no roabon to bollevo that tho YQPROP
16 bub[nos $ W48 dfscuegod wIth tho' Amnbasaador ,
I do not
1 7 bollova It Va8 , although Mr . Dullas , In hfe origlna ] cabla , sa j4
he could ff hb wanted to .
Ar Baron _ Let 4S Introduce 4 8 the fIra] exhiblt Eor
J
c tha moment Exhfbit 12 _ 4 cabla of October 17 _ 1960 1 going to
Jadwin the Chiuf 0f Statlor _
In thfs cablo , the Chief 0f statfon 19 respondIng to Your
euggebtior tha+ a 8dlior caag officer might b9 dfspatchad to
the Congo to haudle the opera:Ior Ilo 80 Y] It [9 4n1
25 oxcollent Idea _ 19 that a fair Intorpratation?
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Page 66
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933
63
M . Teedy . You .
1
2 (Tho document raferred
1 to Vas marked weody
4 Exhlblt No 12 tor
5 Ident ficatlon. )
6
7
8
9
1 -
1 (
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==================================================
Page 67
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TOPSECRET
64
Mr Baron . Tha Chlat of Statfon than mkoe 4 suggostIon {
1 Ju tha fourth Paraqraph for aqulpmont that mfght bo providad if
guch 4 C880 officer Haro bo bont _ Ha 'bay8 , "If C4b0 officar
Bant, racommdnd Mloadquartore pouch boonoa€ hIgh povarod forolqn
5 mko rIfle #Ith toleecoplc sIght and elancar _ Iuntlng good
hera whon Mghte rlght . Hovavar 48 huntinq riflas roy forbidden
would kaap rIflo in offica pendIng opan [ng of hunting b04bon
Hould You cako that to ba 4 racommondation by tha Chfot
9 of sttfon , If 4 cab8 officor Wa8 Jant tho Congo concen -
1 trate 0n tha YCPROP oporatio _ he ahould ba providad #Ith tha
kInd o f Heapon that would bo gu[tad for a 9"par ghot
Lumumba ?
Mr Twbedy . Not nac as84rfly co ba f(rad by che
ca 80 officar obvioua ly not , but at loagt: #9ad In tha oporatio.:
Mr Baron Thfs reference the huntinq Seagon can be
; taken 49 4 refererce oblfquely to the fact that Lumumba wag i3
un cubtody and tha : tharo would not In offoct, "opon
864s0r or: hlm until he showed] hig outaidu of TiN cubtod'!
{ Wou ld tha: he 4 fair inferprotation?
Mr Tweedy . would not ha Ve interpretad ft qulte the
84 @c way . 1 would have Intorpreted Jt thfs way, whfch Wa 5 j!
ft, 45 a result o f Meadquarturg guggest ion tha : 4 r{fla bs
providddl to the Station, the Statlon wou lcl cort $ up wich ar
operationa ] plan frvolvirq the us? 0 f the ri€le which Meadlcqua: ~
would approve, that thus [" 0f fact , tha cparation wa$ 0:;
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Page 68
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TOP SECRET
8 6 5
by 4 rIfle,that would ba tho oponIng ot tha huntIng b04bon 8
1 In othar words , tha PoInt whora knaw how ft could bo u8Od]
1 and Haadquartare had apPprovad It8 ub0
Mr Baron . I hava ono othar gonara [ quastIon beforo Ha
5 tko 4 braak, and that roturnIng to {Sidnoy Gottrzab
6 account 0f hls convarbatlon wIth RIchard Dlsg01) about ~makinq
proparationg carrying oft 4n asabnatlon agafnat an
& ArIcan [orolgn loadar J2 It Yoro raqulrod , Gottlieb s4 Sd In
that contoxt that he had hIghar authority for such an oporatfon
Gottlfeb & l80 g4 Jd that ho cloarly Irtorpratod Bl98o)l co maat:
tha : m1880] 1 had Presidontia ] authorty for auch an oparation
DId You hava any knowlodga 0 ( guch 4 coveraa fon hetwoan
Gottlfob 'and Df8g6)1 from any gourc0?
2b :; Mr Tweedy . I do not r6ca [ 1 that Gott[fab aud [ #var
discugged highgr 4uthority and approva] 1 rlo Jay that i*
did not occur If Gottlfeb g4 (d ha + he had this LmpressIon
In talklng to Bisgul1, I cannot no , but I cannot commen t
OnI Jt furthur
{ Mr Baror For the moment , We have further questicns
d, We will *ku a br eak HOw and pick up' cac i hafora thv {m} |
Comnitt6e 4nd Exacutive Sesior th[8 aftorcoor:_
Thank You Very much Your patience j : going chrounh :hamp
documantg ono by ona . It ha $ bue: extreju ly helful to 19
(Wyhereupor , at 1 :40 p.m . che riro concludlod . )
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Page 69
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ONE #OUR EAR LER THAN TIME MEYTIONED LY TWIS CONVERSA!!OA' AnD :~
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Page 72
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DIOLrttD
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mouity
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PAGE Two
3. ACKNORLEDGE ABOVE SOONEST _ WITH ANY REVISIONS You
ISH MAKE IN ABOVE PROCEDURES . CONTNUE USE YQPROP LNDICATOR
ILL. TRAFFIC TMIS OP, WMCH YOU MNSTRUCTED HOLD ENTIRELY To
YOURSELF _
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Page 75
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Oluvilll Sept 2+
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PAGE 2
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