Transcript of 157-10011-10083.pdf
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157-10011-10083] 2025 RELEASE UNDER THE PRESIDENT JOHN F_ KENNEDY ASSASSINATION RECORDS ACT OF 1992
Date:10/06/93
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JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM
IDENTIFICATION FORM
AGENCY INFORMATION
AGEnCY SSCIA
RECORD NUMBER 157-10011-10083
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ORIGINATOR ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION
FROM
To
TITLE
DESPOSITION/TRANSCRIPT OF | STURBITTS , WILLIAM C_
DATE 04/16/75
PAGES 114
SUBJECTS
DEPOSITION OF STURBITTS , HILLIAM C [R]
DOCUMENT TYPE PAPER TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
CLASSIFICATION S
RESTRICTIONS REFERRED
CURRENT STATUS P
DATE OF LAST REVIEW 09/29/93
OPENING CRITERIA
COMMENTS
SSCI Box 292 _ FoIder 1
[R] ITEM IS RESTRICTED
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BO/ONY NOILNJIJISSVi33G RELEASE OE THis DOCUMENT
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Record Number 157-10011-10083
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3 Jeuosi:ior of Exoination by Counsei
For tl:: Coznission
{illia; C . Sturbitts
(AFTER O : SESSION Page 58 )
willijt C . Sturbitts (Resured) 58
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LENNING
SECRET
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PRESIDENT' 3 CO;UISSIO:
2
ON CIA ACT IVITIES
L
1
Langley , Virginia
Wednesday , April 16 _ '1975
Deposition of MILLIAY C STURBITTS , called for
xamination Counsel for the Conmission on CIA Activities ,
the witness being duly sworn Thomas C Hogan , a Notary
Public in and for the State of Virginia, in the offices 0€ the
ic
Central Intelligence Agency , Langley , Virginia, at 9 : 59
1;
0 'clock a.M . on [ednesday , April 16 , 1975 , the procced ings
12 being taken down in stenotype Ruth G . McClenning , ard ;
0 13 transcribed under her direction
1
14
APPEARANCES
15
On behalf of the Cormission:
16 GEORGE HNFREDI ESQ .
ROBERT' B OLSEN _ ESQ .
13
19
3
20 8
2 1
22
4
23 1
: 24
2
# 25
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E 2 Q C 2 E @ [ N G $
4 2 8 Thereu?o,
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MILLIAM C . SUR3ITTS
0 1
called as a Witness Counse) for the Cojaission 0n C I
Activities , and having been first duly Sworn the 'otary
Public, was exacined and testified as follows:
EXAMI ATION BX COU:SEL FOR THE CO" ISSIOv
8
BY MR . MANFREDI :
9
Mr . Sturbitts, will you state your ful} nane for c;e
10
record?
11 Willian C Sturbites_
12
Mr . Sturbitts, do You recall when we spoke Jo~_ ;
0 13
weeks ago you signed J docunent entitled , "Advice arc
1
14 Waiver" ?
15 Right
16
You understand shat docunent is still in 0 € f ?8' 7
Sure
13 Mr . Sturbitts by whom are You current ly e3j'c?'!?
P
19 You mean the Agency or
8
i 20 That is right .
21 Central Intelligence Agency
L
22 And what is your current position with the Aje:-?
W
M 23 I am a Special Assistant, Latin America For 1
: 24" Econonic Intelligence Collection and Operations
4
2
8 25 And would you briefly review for me the history 4; *
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your employment with the Agency?
{
When I first cane in I was in the Intelligence
1
Directorate for approximately ten Years and I was put on spec ia L
detail, special inaefinite detail in the Dejuty Director, Plans
which is now the Directorate 0€ Operations
what year were You put on that detail?
7
I guess it was 1964 , January , I believe
8
And what did that detail involve?
9
Cuban %perations economic warfare
10
And how long were you on that detail?
11
I was in the Cuban operations for nine Years
12
Between 1964 and 1973? {
4 13
(Nods in affirmative.)
1
14
And in 1973 did you assume your current posit ion?
13
Yes, January .
16 Now while You were on special detail to the_ DOD ?
1 Yes
12
Were You stationed in Washington?
19
Yes 1
U
20
And did you commute with some frequency to 'iani?
6
23
7
Yes
22
Were your activities in Miami in any Ivay connected
W
0 23 with the operations of the Miani Station? 1
24 1 In some way Ny responsibilities were worldwide
29
25
I took temporary duty predominantly in Europe, and then Xiari.
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Most of TY operations were run out of Europe
{ 2
Run out of u
1
Europe _ Some were run out of Miami but the ones
were rud out of Europe
Well
0 in the course of your activities With respect
to Cuba did You have occasion to become familiar with the
7
operations of the Miani base?
Yes
9
And the situation in the Cuban community in Miami?
10
Yes, sir
11 During the nine Years You were with DDO 5 Cuban
12 operations , who was who were the chiefs of the Miani {
0 13 Station?
8
: 14
A I think in 1963 Ted Shackley was the Chief and he
15
was followed I can 't think of his nae I shoula know
16 it. Well, I will come back to that_
17 Then, the next Chief of Station was @aml lenze
0
12 What years was he Chief?
19 I think Wamz was there about a year and a half _ Ve 1
23 left in 1968 when Tve reduced the size of the Station_ Let' s 8
21 say Eete was there from 1966 to 1968 And then Jake Esterlind L
22 He was Chief of Station from 1968 to 1973
W
4 23 Now what was the formal title of the Jroup to which
11
: 24 You were assigned for the 9-year perioa?
6
8
25 A Well, when I first cane in it was known as the
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7 Special Activities Staff . It was headed by Desnond Fitzgerald.
8
And then, I believe after that it became the Cuban Operations
1
Group _
1
Now , Wvas this a special group within the DDO or w2s
it attached to one oe the area divisions?
A No _ Following the of they createa a thing
called Task Forcz N1 which was headed by Bill Harvey . And
8
that Dr when Harvey left_
0 be wewt 10 @ker @E Seationv Rameg
9
an8 Fitzgerald took over, it becane Special Activities Staff _
10
It wasn t attached to anytning except t #tt it reported to the
11
Deputy Director , Plans
12
And that was Mr _ Xaramessines? ;
0 13
A Yes [e ll , it was Helms at that time back when 1 €
1
14
was first created . He lms was DDP at that time
15
And Task Force W was created immediately after the
16 Bay of Pigs?
17 Nell, not immediately . I think sonetime around
13 in the Bay of Pigs was in April_ I think this was created in
19 September some thing like that, 1961 . 1
U 20 And that subsequent ly becane the Special Activities
0
2 Staff?
1
22 Special Activities Staff and consequently becane the
5
23 Cuban Operations Group. As the Cuban Operations Group it went 1
1 24 back into the Vestern Hlenisphere Division
0
25 And what Ias the date of that reorganization?
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A Well, let' s see I would say that was probably aroud
8 1965 because Fitzgerald then became Chief , F . M . and then
1
later DDP
L
Now Mz Harvey do You recall what position Mr
5 Harvey held after he left Tas} Force [?
6 A Yes He was @hez @E 'Sat@mo Bone
And is he still With the Agency?
8 Oh , no He retired a long time ago
Do you know where he lives at the present tine?
10 A Frankly , I don' t . I have an idea where he lives
11 He went to work for a friend oE mine who had a law firn_
12 Harvey is a lawyer _
;
0 13 Indianapolis area?
1
14 Yes , some place around there . It is in the midwest,
15 Indiana
What was the role that was assigned to Task Force
16
W? 17
It was the overall Cuban operations
13
Did the Miami when was the Miani Station estab-
19
1
lished?
23 i
Fell, I think they had a forward operatio-s base down
21
L
there about 1960 which Wa sma ll 30 @0raz Gableaa
22
5 This Ivas , then , prior to the Bay of Pigs?
23
1
Oh , yes _
0 24
2 Now , in addition to Task Force W , was the Miami
v 25
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Station running any operations against Cuba?
8 You mear prior to the Bay of Pigs?
1
Yes _
1
I really don t know It was a small 3 it was a
forard base and it was more ,or less as I recall, a support tyze
6 thing _
Mell, after the of Pigs when Task Force W was
established, did it have sole responsibility for Cuban
9 operations?
1C
Yes
11
Or was that shared with the Miami base , Miani
12 Station? 1
0 17
A No The Miami Station was under Task Force N_
8
{ 14 All right Would that also be true of the Special
15 Activities Staff the Cuban Operations Group?
17 Right, except that at the present time che Station
has no Cuban operations
32 I understand that_ When were Cuban operations termi-
19 nated?
i 20} At the Station? Let 's see Scerneield went down
21 there in 1972 _ It was during fiscal year 72 I think it wJs
L
22 in early 1973 It was a gradual reduction
4
2. And have those operations been terminated entirely
<
5
: 24 or are they now run out of the Washington area?
2
25 A All Cuban operations are run out of Washington
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There are no more piramilitary operations_ that type of thing
~
1 But there are soje Cuban operations being run out of
1
the Washington area?
Right.
Is that correct?
Right. Worldwide
Mr.Sturbitts, in the last couple of weeks You Tay
have seen some allegations in the press about possible assassine
tion attempts that have been nounted or alleged assassination
10 attempts that have been mounted
11 Right.
12 against Fidel Castro In the course of your
{
0 13 activities with respect to Cuba , did You ever learn of any sucn
1
14 attempts?
28 Well, let me answer it this way _ I wouldn t say
{0 16 attempts I know there was discussion . "Attempts is too
1 % strorg a word =
13 Well , can you place in time your first knowledge of
19 any such discussions?
{
Nell, the first knowledge I had of any discussions
8
2 1 I was on TDY and this was October November , 1963 , with Fitzgerai L
22 in Paris And I knew that he Ias going to meet 5_ let ne
W
v 23 it another way . I had overheard that discussions were going on
8
5
24 with a member of Castro S military but that he wanted _ as
:
9
7 25 I recall, he wanted some Biitlsih}
ZC I Ie.w Jelglan rifles ard
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3 a telescopic sight _
{
Who winted them?
1
This military guy that was in Fidel' s I thin}
at one time he wa s a comnardante Now , I knew that was going
on . I didn t participate it because I was there For another
reason And I know that subsequent to that time that Fitzgera c
met with him again and as I recall, as the personal representa-
tive of the Attorney General , Bobby Kennedy .
I provided all those files There are 19 volunes chat
16
we gave to your people . But I don t knolv who w2s reviewing
11
them . I think Belin was going to do it himself.
12
Yes . He is He is doing it hinself 1
0 13
You said there were 19 volunes of docunents with
1
14 respect to this_
15
19 files, manila
16
Q + All 'having to do with possible assassination?
All having to do Wvith this whole tine period ard
18
can we go off the record for a minute?
19 (Discussion off the record . ) 1
i 8'5 BY MR _ MA FREDI ;
21 The first knowledge of such conversations that You
1
22 had , I take it You obtained on a trip to Europe With Mr.
4
23 Fitzgerald? 1
: 24. I sinply overheard it, that is right.
2
25 And who were the parties to the conversation overt
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heard?
2
A fellow naned Nestor Sanchez
1
Ara Xr . Fitzgeraid?
2
Yes , and I really can't recall some of the other
people We were we hed juse moved tbe Statiom 86 ebee &ine,
{ Paria, ouz @E Lhe Bmbassy Ink@ ehe @Id Rothsehila Palace
and we felt that it was probably bugged _ So all conversations
took place we walked arouad the garden and tyat type of
thing, and , you know , I was walking with sonebody , sonebody
10
was in front of ne and You just overhear conversations
11 This Ias in Paris?
12
Yes [
& 13
I see.
8
{ 14 Bandhez was he a member of the military?
15 No Ms
0
Sanebez Mas An" tehe Speeial aeesvicies Se3ff
16 He was stationez in Nashington 'Etad @e Was 1@ Goueac€ wi eh
Grban "llkary Bfe6'
13 Was it your understanding that the Agency had receive:
13 instructions ith respect to this activity from another
6 20 component of the Government?
21 A Well, let ne put it this way . I don ' t know whethcr
|
22 they received instructions 1 have to assume , and I am prettv
4
23 positive, that this was a result of a Special Group dec is}on 1
: 24. And at this time You have to remember that Bobby Kennedy was
2
7 25 overseeing this deal, presunably for his brother , and he wjs
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3 part of that Special Group . Ie called the meetings , he presider
3
he dic a nuzber of things
1
Were there any other occasions that You can recall
1
in which the possibility or the subject of assassination of
Fidel Castro was discussed?
6
A No , not really.
7
You referred to this as the first occasion_
8
This is the first
9
Was there a second?
1C
the first tine I knew about it or even he.rd it
11 discussed _
12 Nell , prior to the investigation that is curreciy; 1
0 13 underway ## # I am referring now to our Comnission' s investivation
1
14
Fere there any other occasions in Ivhich this subject :`70
16 to your attention after this discussion in the garden i 2
16 Paris?
1 7 A The only other thing that came to my attent -o: JS
18 that the decision was made not to provide him with thi $ 4h:
19 that he Wvanted _ Whether that is right or wrong , I Zon' < *? % 1
j 20 but that is what I was told
6
21 When did You learn that?
1
2: Oh, I would assune in D nust have been ea r ly 196 # ,
4
2: around February , sonething like that . 1
0 24 Off the record
4
2
25 (Discussion off the record . )
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MR . MANFREDI : On the record
8 2
BY MR _ 'ANFREDI:
1
Mr . Sturbitts, are You familiar with a gentleman bz
1
the nare of Fran} Sturgis?
Indeed _
Is your familiarity based on what you have read in
the press?
8
A No . It is what is contained in the files_
Have You caused a search to be made of CIA files ,
10 particularly the files of the Western Hemisphere Division ,
11 in an attempt to determine whether Mr . Sturgis ever had ary
12 connection with the Agency? {
0
13
A I have
1
14 What were the results of that search?
15 Absolutely no connection, never has been .
16 Nhen we talk about connection , are we talk about
17 an employment relationship?
18 That is what I am speaking of _
19 Was Mr.Sturgis ever an independent contractor 0 €
1
20 the Agency? c
21 No .
1
22 Was he ever a contract .employee?
4
23 No .
8
5
: Was he ever a regular employee of the Agency?
L
2
0 25 No
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Was he ever hired to do any piecework for the
8
Agency?
1
Not to DY knowledge _
L
Do you know whether or not Mr . Sturgis ever partici-
pated in any type of paramilitary or other operation against
Cuba?
On his own behalf he did, not on behalf of this
Agency
How did You learn of those operations?
Through the newspaper _ And through FBI reports_
Now are these recent FBI reports?
12
Oh , no These 9o back I know at one time the ;
6 13 thing that comes to mind , I think he made a leaflet drop
1
14 over Cuba and this was subsequen reported in the Press and
15 by the Bureau office in Miami
]5 Do you know who financed his activities?
I have no idea
12 Is it possible that Mr _ Sturgis activities were
m
1? indirectly financed by the Agency through
8
6
23 I don ' t see how Frank Sturgis is a soldier of
6
21 fortune; has been He has constantly tried to associate himsel
1
22 with the Agency . When I went through his file wanted me
4
:
23 to classify the Eile and the way I classified it was "don t
5
: 2= destroy it, he is an intelligence nuisance .
4
0
40 23 off the record
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{ (Discussion off tile record.)
{
MR . MANFREDI : Or the record
3
BY MR . MANFREDI : L
Have you caused the Agency records with respect to Nr
Sturgis to be assembled in any one location?
Yes . Ihave cus tody of them
And what is the volune of that naterial?
As I recall, there are five volumes Your Committee
called for then the other after the article in the paper _
13
I guess it was last Saturday _ They called for then Monday and
11 they returned them Monday afternoon
12
Do you know who exanined those files? 1
0 13
No , I don ' t .
8
14
You indicated a moment ago that Mr Sturgis contacts
13
the DCD office in Miami With some Erequency , is that correct?
15 Well not great Frequency but he does with tidbits
of so-called information _
13 Is this information limited to narcotics , alleged
19 narcotics traffic? 1
8
20 Recently it has been
21 Has Mr . sturgis been encouraged by the DCD office
L
22 in Miami?
4
23 A Mr . Sturgis has been told by the DCD office in Miani 1
: 24 to take his information to the Drug Enforcement Agency or the
4
2
4 25 FBI
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Do you know whether or not they consider him an
{
established contact?
L
No nanner _
1
Do they have any do they periodically seek to
collect information Erom Mz Sturgis?
I t speak to that but the records that Ive have
don' t reflect anything like that_ Before they would contact
somebody in that context , knowing that there is a 201 file
on Sturgis, they- would have Eo coordinate with the Latin
10 American Division before they did anything since we do hold
11 the file_
12 Would you briefly explain what a 201 file is?
{
0 13 A 201 file 1s a personnel file It consists of any
8
2 14 information relating to an individual appearing in the press
15
as a result of other agency reporting and that type of thing
16 Personnel or personality file?
17 Personality file, I should say . Excuse me
18 Do you know whether or not there is any connection
19 or relationship between Eugenio Martinez and Mr Sturgis?
2
J
26 Well, I will say this Obviously, they do knos
6
21 each other They have to know each other fron their days L
22 in Cuba
W
v 23 Do you know Khecher or not Mr _ Sturgis ever partici
1
: 24 pated with Martinez in raids against Cuba?
2
25 No . As I recall, we employed Martinez around 1961
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1
I guess , and he was in our jaritime activities He was a 3
3
boat captain eventually. And he dia participate in infiltration
1
and exfiltrations and perha?s one Or two raids
1
hit and run, 1
sabotage-type actions against Cuba _ Sturgis never en jaged in
any of these things He never did it for us nor did he evcr
do it on any of our boats planes , or #
anything that bcloncs
to the Agency .
Fhen Martinez would run such an operation or capta in
2 boat on such an operation , would he be charged with puttirg
10 together his own crew?
11
No . ile had an assigned crew and every boat had
12 Case Officer operating either out of the probably Jut 0 f 1
8 13 the Miani Station Sometines I would assume that We did have
1
14
some people in the Wase'base _ But he _ Martinez , wou f dd recei
15 his instructions and briefings from his Case Officer .
16 Sa it is likely that he could have brouaht Sturfi s
17 along on any of these operations?
18 Absolutely unlikely . Oh , the guy whose naze 5 Khs
19 trying to think of , Chief of Station Ijahn Dimei.
U 20 And that would be for a period of time betwcen
6
2 Shackley and Wenz
L
22 Yes
4
23 1964 to 1966?
1
1 24 Something like chat
8
25 Would You describe briefly for ne the nature 0 Co
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activities conducted by the Special Activities Staff during
3
your and subsequently the Cuban Operations Group during
L
your 9-Year tenure with those groups 18
Well, there was it was an across-the-board
intelligence operation consisting of collection of Eoreign
positive intelligence_ counterintelligence paramilitary
activities, covert action, economic activities_ That is about
the breadth of the thing .
9
Now these were all conducted through the DDO?
1C Right_
11
Now let 5 speak for 3 moment about the paramilitary
12 operations Were these operations run out of southern {
0 13
Florida?
1
14 Right.
13 And in particular out of the Miami Station?
16
Yes
Were there any other CIA facilities in that arej o€
13 the country that participated in these activities?
19 Not to my knowledge {
8 2} Were there any southern harbors other than Miamj
81 that were used in these activities?
7
22 A Weijo ve had actvatias don" inarehe Keys azge. Jja z
4
23 47gana; Wa dd Bavva @ 3zy Wese baseo 1
: 24 Were there any other bases in that area of the
4
2
8 25 country that were utilized in these operations?
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1
Well not that I would call 3 base. We did have
3
3 training facilities f0. the WDf Ecams
1
Wbzt %8 & @z #eznnz
1
Thdeswater dmojiezomo
Where were those bases located?
A I frankly don t knoiv Jhey werc down_along Qba Kevsg
along ehag Zong peningula_ golng dowi Uerea Ihere Igre @
Lunoer; @1 91,628 I really can € recall then
Were there any other sites within the United States
1c in which paramilitary training was conducted , for people
i1 participating in these activities?
12
A Not ta my knowledge _
1
0 13 Where were these people trained?
1
14 What do You mean?
15 Tell Cubans who participated in_ these activities _
16 A We trained them at bheze Jelaces we had 1n @ke Reys
Q2
Nerlo ehere elgo Uloo; go2 @E ehen DUcSIet?_ balsengll 4? bera ad Eroluea
13 ag %a Damegelc Yrainiag gtakj00
F
19 WJbeaze #8 that Jo@ated?
8
j 20 ITbat La @2 1w Viigimio
C
2} Were any CIA personnel actually involved in these 1
27 raids?
23 A Occasionally , I would think that a You have got to
9
3
4
24 understand at this time that we had a great many contract
c
2; employees , independent contractors and this type of thing _
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!
Most of the paramilitary operations and che trai was {
8 conducted by the Special Operations Grou? which is Jnother
1
entity of the
L
DDO?
DDO
Now the facilities that we have been ta lking abou€,
training facilities, were nanred , then, by the Special
Operations Group, or at least supervised by the Special
Operations Group, is that correct?
13
A Well, supervised Yes, and I would think that probabl
11
some of the training was givej by their people_ qe Deneatie
2
Oaldina sea2t00 48'uader #ho 0I2104 @L #ra1ning aud Eme I {
0
13 would think that in the paramilitary field that the sOG Ivould
2
< i4 probably staff the training facility with their people who have
5 the expertise in paramilitary operations
Now_
'8 were the pec?le that vere being trained at
these facilities basically Cuban refugees?
Yes
And at the outset 5 cake it not many 0€ those peo?it 1
20 were American citizens? 8
21 No
1
22 Or had become Anerican citizens
4
2 3 I would assune a great many have 1
: 24 By this time
L
< 25 A By this tine, yes
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At the present tine holv large is that Cuban conmuri {
{
in Miani? Do yol have any idea?
1
Iell, it is ex trenely large I woud think it is
L
probably M I was trying to think I would say u? to;ards 71
military people
You spoke about Paramilitary operations and covert
action _ How do You distinguish between those two categories
of activities?
A Well actua one can Eall into the other The
10 paramilitary could fall into covert action but in those days
11
we did distinguish somewhat. A lot of the covert action kas
12 nedia placement . We had a nunher of operations at T I lega) - 2
6 13 type operations harassment operations _ For instance_ Fiiie[
1
14 seizea a great nany art treasures and in particular he had
15 Napoleonic collection which was supposed to be the Einest in
16 the world that he sold to dealers in Europe [e had pa iatin ;s
that were immense valuable that. he tried to have aictioned
18 in London and the London auctioneer would not accept thes
19 because he obviously didn't have clear title to then Me ~JS 7
U
20 they were stolen in the eyes of the auctioneer_ Tie was
6
21 forced to auction them in Toronto, Canada L
22 We ran lega) operations got the owners and had then
4
23 hire attorneys and bring then to court and this type 0€ thi:y_
1
24 He seized these race horses He tried to peddle :hcf
0/ 25 in Europe and uP in Canada Ne ran opposition against that
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{ type of thing _
8 These were what You considered to be covert operation
L
Yes , covert action
Now , this is what You were referring to , leqal-
type operations?
6
Yes
2
You used legal process to harass Castzo
3
Yes
9
What other types of harassment activities did you
1J
run that would fall under this covert action category?
11
A Rell
12
Woula economic warfare be 1
0
13
That was sort of something separate unto itsel:
8
{ 14 This was the economic warfare aspect of this ching was
15 decision of the Special Group to enforce an ecoronic blocknce
16 What special group is that?
It is now called the Forty Committee.
12 Is that 302 Connittee?
19 A Well, it was a 302 at one time, too . First 0f 4 ] ! _ 1
i 20 it was called the Special Group, CI , Counterinsurgercy . ~he::
21 it went to the 302 and then it had another name in betveen
L
22 there and now it is the Forty Committee.
W
v 23 All right. Ne will return to that a little bit 1
: 24 later, but what other types 0f harassment were vou runnina
9
25 against Castro
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7
This is what I was trying to think of
8 2
J that would be considered covert action?
1
3
Well, 2s I say , a lot of propaganda press placerent
1
nedia placement . It has been "so long ago I really don t
5
remenber I know we had a number of things going against hin.
6
rie used suasion, moral suasion , otherwise We dia some
extra-legal things We tried to get to his sources of supply
pareiculagly wben Cbey werc Goueries Llad we had 'txzeaele8
9 wieho N40 corbricsa Cewadag this type of thing _
1C
Let' s talk about each of those in turn You said
11
you Used moral suasion Nhat kind of activities are you
12 referring to? 1
0 13 [ell , in the moral suasion field we actua we
1
14
were the catalyst in this whole thing and we had the legal
15 activities_ the legal T well I don t know how You wou ]d
16 phrase it, but we operated under the Cuban access control
177 regulations of the Treasury, Department , the Trading wich chc
18
Enemy Act, and we also used the facilities of the Departnert
19
Comerce, the Export Control people _ 2
8 20 I guess as you are aware, Cuban industry was totally
21 U.S.~oriented _ As parts began wearing out and this type of
L
22 thing , Castro had his little people there running around tryinj,
4
23
to place orders with subsidiaries of U.S companies _ Where
1
1 24
we would find this out through all-source intelligence we
9
5 v 25
or the Treasury people or the Comnerce people would go to cke
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1
executives of these American. companies and ask them to tell
~
{
r, their foreign subsidiaries not to provikdle the spare parts
1
and the other things that Castro might need. [e had the
Department of Coznerce we identified 600 of the major U.S .
companies that could provide spare parts for Cuban industry
We had the Department of Comnerce send letters to those 600
manufzcturers and ask then to cooperate with them in denying
any spare parts to the Cubans This was a fairly concentrated
G
effort to really isolate them
1
All right And that is what You were referring to
as noral suasion?
A Yes . 1
0 Anything else in that category?
1
Not really. None that I can think of _
15 Did You make the same kind of efforts with foreign
companies?
A At one point We did but it was absolutely useless ,
12 tbe poing #n @38 Jeing ~be Leyiend buses 0
We pujed &ll se@ps
G0 Step thzg gales %e Drrtyal Coveranenk Uuzuad WS dosx
29 i #labo
0
21 Now , did you attempt to reach any other sources of
1
22
supply?
W
J 23
A Well, we also had what we call a preemptive purchasing;
1
{ 24
program If there was a single source of supply for 3
0 25 particular item we would 9o in and buy it to deny the Cubans
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24
7
the market.
3
Nould tha: then be re-sold sozewhere on the domestic
1
Yes L
donestic market?
No . It Kould be re-sold abroad
6
In all cases?
The cases that I was associated Wvith, it was all
sola abroad .
9
What kind of purchases were made?
10
Well, wle purchased at one point
4 Lt we purchased
11
some Bright Stock J 4wnm
12
{ What?
0 13
Bright Stock 1
14
What is that?
15
HeavY , heavy 0il, and since Cuba 85 percent 0 €
16
her energy comes from oil, chis was considered 3 critical
2 commodity. Brighz Stock can be 4 4 oh , ic is almost like t_r ,
13
melted tar, and it can be cut into additives lubricants, chis
19
type of thing, and this was critical to the Cuban economy S0 1
j 20
6 we had an 0il firm purchase this Bright Stock fron a dealer for
21 which we reimbursed the guy and the Bright Stock was even tually
L
22 sold in Ncicag
5
8
23 Do you know of any sales of such materials that
6
: 24"
were made Within the United States? Resales , I should say .
<
25
No .
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In addition to precmptive buying were there any
L4 2 2
othez actions taken this group with respezt to sources of
1
supply to Cuba? L
Well, we did provide through Lhird country agents
who got orders for Cuban goods in collusion with the Corzerce
Depar tment , and I would assure the Special Grou?, we had
replacement parts manufactured thaz were substandard .
And you had then sold through foreign companies?
[ell we had our agents get the Cuban orders all
10
over Europe_ Then they would come back and as a natter of {ac_ ,
11
the former Secretary of Ccznerce, who is on your Connittee , Dez _
12
and I met him and he gave us the go-ahead to do this ;
0 13
Mr . Dilion?
1
14
No . He was Secretary of the Treasury _
15
But
12
But You must remember that these Anerican
17
Mr . Connors?
18
A Yes. But You must renember these American manufacture:
19 Fell_ their places were nationalized and they were only :oo 1
8
20
happy to work with uS And actually, it was a cash deal bona
21 fide business_ These things were transshipped through two
L
22
or three countries , finally wound up in Havana_
W
V
:
23 You referred to some extra-legal activities
J
: 24
A Yes. That is What I was trying to think of , what
9
25
we did. I just can t think Ma I remember- this was on one o€
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1
our activities buz I just can't think I renember this was
3
on one of our activities but I just can t renenber :hat the
1
extra-legal was I just can' t remember wnat it Was . I krow 1
it Tvas one of the parts of the program
This was illegal activities? Is that what You Jre
referring to?
A Well , I wouldn' t say they were illegal, but they
weren t exactly lega l , I don 't think Perhaps they were in 2
gray area some place _
1
Well , whose laws are we talking about , internationa]
11
law, the laws of the United States?
12
4 I would have to go back and review the thing_ 1
4 13 really. can t remember this I would have to So to the f4es _
8
< 14 Where could we find that kind of thing in the F1 l0s ?
15
I would think probably down 11 #e Regorda @entew 5;
1f place.
17 Would it be possible to obtain that materia] So:C
13 time during the lunch hour?
19
No Ze 1s Gorty miles awayo
i 20 Well, is there sone place in the building where
21
you could refresh. your memory?
|
22
Not to my knowledge _ All that stuff has been Sh !
4
;
23
This is talking 1l Years ago , 12 years ago . All that nafe: :0!
5
: 24 has been retired .
9
25
What category of activity would we be talking abo.;
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2
when e refer to extra-legal activities? 3
8
This is ihat I was trying Eo think of and I can' t
1
think of what it Was I know extra-legal activities was one 1
parts of the program that we were involved in.
I might have a chart in my safe downstairs that ni stt
tell me what that is
Well, let' s make a note of that and wve will have to
8
come back to that.
9
All right .
19
Who else would be knowledgeable about extra-legal
11
activities that were run against Castro?
12
Well the people that woula be knowledgeable are 0
0 13
probably retired and I was running the program _ So I ran
1
14
the economic program
15 Well, these are activities that were run ir conncc}1
15 with the economic Progran?
1 7 Yes_
i3
We talked about nedia placement during this ninc-
19 year period_ To what are you referring when you refer to 1
& 23 media placement?
21 Well, stories or news items that perhaps our
1
22 propaganda people, prote Ne had them placed in newspapers
4
23 and magazines throughout the world _ 1
: 2 4 Would this also include broadcasts over radio
2
9 25 stations?
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7
Oh , Radio is a very part of it.
Now , werz any of these newspapers or magazines
11
published within the United States?
1
Not to my knowledge , no
These were essentially Eoreign publications?
Yes
Were any of then lished in the Cuban community
in Mi2ni?
No . The intent wJs to get world opinion against
1C
Castro You don t do that by publishing in the United states
11
ihat about the radio broadcasts? How were those
2-26 12
handled? 1
0 13
Are you speaking 0f Radio Swan now?
3
} 14 Well, I am unfaniliar with how many radio stations
15
were involved Mas tnere nore than one radio station?
16
No We only had the one radio station but We did
contract time with Florida stations , a station in New Yor} .
For broadcasts to Ihat areas?
14 For broadcasts to Havana {
20 And the station in Vew York, was that received also 8
21
was that also broadcasting to various areas of the United L
22 States?
W 6
;
2} I have no idea I don t know whether they used a
J
0 2 + particular frequency to get this out or whether they dia it
8
5 25
on short-wave or what they did.
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1
But the intention 62s to reach Cuba
3
€
Reach Cuba
1
You referred to 2 station in New York, referred to
1
as Swan. Were there others?
5
There were a couple in Miani thaz I recall Not in
Miami I think there was one yes , there IvJs one in Miami ,
I' think ana @@B r@oM 10 Bey Webl Lbag Ehey_usede
8
Where Ias Radio Swan located?
9
On Swan Island
1 Where is Swan Island?
11 Swan Island is a little glob around Honduras
12
As far as You can recall_ were there any other 1
0
13 radio stations in the United States that were utilized to
1
12 broadcast propaganda materials toward Cuba?
15 Nell, there conceivably could have been , not that
16 I recall right now
Do You recall any attempts by the Agency or Jrojps
18 affiliated with the Agency co raise noney from the Arerican
19 public to support those propaganda activities?
3
20 No . As far as I know , Radio Swan and this type o f 5
2 thing was fully subsidized by the Agercy 1
2 22 Do you recall the advertising campaigns that werc
4
23 run in connection with Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty?
:
5
: 24 Oh , yes.
2
7 25 Was anything of that nature done in connection With
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8
Cuban propaganda?
: Not to TX knowledge
3
9 And thzt would icclude both the publications and tixe
1
radio?
Right _
Leti s talk about econoric warfare for 3 couple of
moments _ Could You describe for ne briefly the type of
economic activities that were
conducted against Castro?
Mell, first of all, we wanted to denigrate the
10 regine , his credit worthiness , and this type of thing _ ne
11 worked very closely with the Coordinator of Cuban Affairs in
12 the State Department and , well, for instance in those days , [
;
d
13 guess it was back in 1964 , the price of sugar had jumpec fror
1
14 about a penny a pound to 13 cents a pound _ something like
15 that, and we couldn' t understand So we kept Fidel kept
16 saying that he had such a poor crop and this eype of thin ena
we just couldn t figure out why he had such a poor crop bv* s
12 some of our own island assets told us they were out there cuts:
19 this cane like mad and the aills were working 24 hours a &1?,
1
this eype of thing _ So subsequently , we found ou that hc wJS
20 i
21 lying and he was storing the raw cane in the schocls any 1
22 place _ He had no storage facilities and put it any place Ie
vi 23 could.
1
24 So in cooperation with a couple of sugar brokcrs in
1
2
25 New York, we surfaced chis fact and the price of sugar took a
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8
5 real tunble and all of a sudden then Cuba started exporting
8
It was this type of thing that obviously he was
1
trying to build up che world Price because he didn t have an; 1
money he was so short on his exchange, and obviously MC did:
want hin to get the exchange _ So it was those types 3f
activities
Was the Jssistance of any U.S businessnen o5 U.$ .
companies enlisted in that effort?
A Oh , yes
1'
In what manner did You use U.S_ companies and
il businessmen?
12 Fell, Ie simply used them as the experts A mreat
0 13
many the sugar industry in Cuba was controllej the
1
14 American community , American bankers and obviously the
15
lost everything when they had to pull out . Sugar is cte
16 lifeline of Cuba as far as any exchange , Eoreign exchange , C 31 S
type 0f thing, and it was na terally our Nunber L tar;et .
12
was only natural that we would go to the Anerican bus inoss;en _
19 What kind of assistance did You seek or obta !n n-o" 1
2C these businessmen? :
21 Well, we simply talked with then about {0u
1
3 22 know_ the market conditions were the price was ris!n ) ,
4
23 we could find out that Fidel has plenty of sugar , what Wo!d 1
:
24 happen to the market price = This type of thing_
0
& 25 They were used as consultants basically.
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1 They were used as consultants, basically , yes
3
We have spoken about the investment Arezican business
1
had in Cuba Did it ever come to your attention that American
L
organized crime
5
No
6
had considerable investment in Cuba?
No . Well everybody knew that the Mafia was in
8
Cuba I mean, all the casinos and this type of thing_
9
The casinos were run
10
I knew that long before. When I was in the Air Force
11 during the war, I used to into Havana cn weekends and this
12
type of thing - 1
0 13
I understand that. It was fairly Iell known
:
2 14 It was a criminal element
15
The Mafia was involved with the casinos in Mavana
16 Right .
17 Do you know of any attempts the Agency to en] [5 ~
18 the support or assistance of any crime figures in any nanner
7
19 whatsoever in the Agency' s efforts against the Cuban regize?
8
20 No 8
21 Have You ever heard of Mr Roselli?
7
22 Oh , yes _
4
23 When Was the first time you heard of Mr Roselli?
1
24 Well, I guess it was 4 it seems to re it was either
2
7 25 Drew Pearson or Jack Anderson had an article on him a numbe r
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7
of years ago
{
Was that the first time You heard of the man S
3
<
nane?
1
Yes, as 1 recall
Is that also true of Sam Giancana?
No . I have heard that name but I don 't know where
In connection with
Not in connection with the Agency no
9
In connection with the casinos or
1 No
11 gambling interests in Cuba?
12 No 1
4 133 You know of no instance in which organized crime
8
} 1 4 figures were used as consultants the Agency?
15 Only what I read in the paper. I had no knowledge
16 of that whatsoever
Do you know of any offers of assistance fron figures
i6 of that type
19 No {
j 23 who ere interested in getting back into cuba?
6
2 No . 1
22 We were talking about economic warfare. We have
W
Yi 23 talked about attempts to keep the price of sugar low What othe
1
: 2< types of economic activities were conducted against Castro' $
2 25 Cuba?
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Well, We used all-source infornation to Eind out Ivhz t 3
~ 8 his cornercial dealings were #nen we Ivould see t well for
C
instarce, the Nicaro Nickel Nire which is J source owned
L
by the General Services Aduinistration , finally got back into
5 production and nickel, of course , and still is was in shorz
supply _ we nad 3 Rrenshl firn, sogiece Ze Niekel
d Iho vas
7 buying (2ln033 Eb8 &naiset output of the Vicaro mines _ And this
Erench firm ex ported to the United States. So we went to
the Treasury Department and to the Foreign Assets Control
16 people and said, isn' t there some thing we can do to stop these
11 le Miekei exports coming into the United States? So they lookc_
12 into the thing and indeed the did. 1
13 Who owned the mi-e?
2
: 14 The U.S . Government owned it when Castro took it
15
over.
16 I see _
1 General Services Adzinistration And it #as Ices0-
13 out for operation _ But the onership rested with the
C
19 Government
8
U 20 So the Treasury simply made ther Rzeneh pprovide a
C
21 Certificate of Origin for ~he nickel that went in they 1
22 export a lot of metal that contains nickel , silverware, knives
6i 23 and forks, this type of thing _ and 3 You know stainless
1
: 24 steel , since nickel is used as a hardening agent we simply
; 25 Treasury simply said You can t import any more into this
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3 country until wve hae a Certificate of Origin As a natter
{
of fact , there was a boat chat was pulling into the dock in
1
New York and they wouldn : let it unload just turned it 1
around _ Eventual ly , over 3 period of nonths @e @iekel
found other sources and export privileges to the United States
were restored _
You krow, it is you just any tine you raise
or lower a tariff You have economic Iarfare. It is that
simple.
10
Were there any other instances that you can recall
11 of economic warfare in which you enlisted the support 0f
12 American business firs? 1
0 13
I know we were in touch With a great many Americ ) 8
8 14 business firms_ We enlisted everybody 5 support that we cou la
15 MR = MANFREDI : off the record
16 (Discussion off the record .)
BY MR MA:FREDI :
13 When Ie broke for a noment we were discussing oter
0
19 instanzes where the Agency has enlisted the support of Nner : CJ; 8
8 20 business in economic warfare against Cuba Can You thin} 0 f
21 other such instances?
L
22 Oh , certainly . The Cubans were having an awfu) tiac
4
23 with their Maritime fleet , such as it was Tbono bealn tcre 1
: 24 pewesed Wicb Nordberg @ngznega We simply went to the Nozelbeng
2
25 people and told then 0 asked then to cooperate with uS vhich
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1
they said they would_ They cotified their manufacturer' s
3
0 representatives around the Forld if they got any orders from
3
the Cubans they Were to be rczused _ This type of thing_
We did the same tning with
Let' s just stop for a second _ Now was
Dozdberg
compensated in any way for cooperation wich the Agency?
No
Were they compensated for the loss of business
involved in that activity?
10
No . No
11
I take it, You received similar cooperation f-C7
12 other companies _
0
0 13 Oh , a great many other conpanies yes
8
{ 14 Did any American companies refuse to cooperate 1 ?1
15 that manner?
16 No Not a one
Were there any legal sanctions threatened aga::5 4:
13 companies?
19 A No . No 1
&
20 Were there any sanctions that could have becn br %T
C
21 to bear upon those companies had they chosen to trade Vfth 1
22
2 Cuba?
4
23 A Well, in the first place , they couldn t trade 81:
:
J
: 24 Cuba They couldn' t get export licenses from this coun:ry
9
25 anyway . Then , under the Foreign Assets Control Act of th?
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37
1
Treasury Department You have the extra-territorialty clause 1
8 in there where a subsidiary of an American company cannot
1
foreign subsidiary of an inerican compary cannot trade Ivith
1
the cour try that is designated and Cuba was a designated countz;
And all the businessmen were well aware of this_ Nobody tried
to twist their arm
Other than insuring that these companies refused
to accept orders from Cuba _ thich I take it you feel they were
legally constrained from doing , what other types of support did
10
you receive from Anerican business?
11
A_ Well, if American business #uet
sometimes they wou ld
12 receive correspondence , particularly , say , from well _ they
{
4 13 received it from Cuba asking Eor publications and this cype
1
14 of thing . They would normally Eorward all this type.of thicg
15
to the Comnerce Departnent and the Treasury Department , or in
16
some instances they might call me and I would just give them
a Post Office box to send che correspondence to
18 Any ther; types of support solicited or received by
7
19 the Agency from American business?
8
U
20 No Not &hat I can recall There just wasn t one
C
2 firm we approached _
0
and God knows we approached I don ' t know L
22 how many , that wasn't extremely cooperative As a matter of
y
23 fact, a lot of them _ you kno thought we weren t doing enough_
1
24 that we ought to do a little more than Ive were doing , the
8 25 government wasn:' t really pushing Cuba the Ivay it should but
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8
outside of that, no thing _ There wasn t any problem o€ coopera-
:
8 ; tion _ Tnere wasn any arm-twisting_ It as all voluntary .
1
Did you identify yourself as CIA
Yes .
in dealings with these companies?
A Indeed , I do and we went to the top level , even
the Board Chairman or the president _ No problem at all_
Let' s talk about paramilitary operations_ We startad
but didn 't really discuss that in any depth
1C
What kind of paramilitary operations were run
against Cuba by the CIA?
12
Maritime operations _ 1
13
Is that the extent of it?
1
14
That is the extent of it.
15
Were there any aerial operations?
16
Not to my knowledge _
17 Leaflet drops?
18 No
19 Bombing? 3
c 20 No _ Of course You had the over-flights As far as
C
1 2 I an concerned that is the only aerial activity_
} 22 That was run by another directorate, Iasn't it?
5 23
8 Yes
5
0 24 Aerial photography , and So forth
25 Yes They run a flight when you ask then_ It has to
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: be requested and Lhat is ancut it:'
07
~ S
And those were run out of tle United states?
1
Oh , yes .
Can you think of anything any other type of para-
military activity other than maritime operations _
No I really ca? t, no .
Am I correct tha: those operations were manned
by CIA contract enployees?
Right.
1
Which would include Cuban re fugees _
11 Right _
12
And So3 e CIA officers? 1
0 13
Rignt_
17
14 Any other brarches of the services , Armed Services ,
15
involved? This , of course, is posted Bay of
16
Yes . No , not to J: knowledge _ You have got to "Eeaar
that probably dofsn a1 @WE Demestie Yzelning 8tal1ox W@
12 probably have people on dezail from other from the ilitar;
13 branches in the Government, but other than that I Zon ' t chinb 1
6 20 that 4= of course, during che Bay of operation we also
C
2 had people detailed into the Agency .
7
22 Now the training of persons involved in maritime
4
:
23 operations, I take it, was conducted in part Within the
J
: 24 United States and in part outside of the United States_ Is
0
25 that correct?
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I would chink probably the major portion oE it Was
3
conducted withi:l the United States
1
TTla Reys would be considered within the United
States.
Oh , yes
Or were there any locations where it was conducted
outside the United States?
Following the Bay of Pigs , I don ' t think So . Not
to my knowledge .- I just don : know , I just don t recall
10
but I don t think that A I think all the training was done
11 domestically .
12 Now , what kinds of operations are included xithin {
& 13 this category of maritime operations?
8
3 14
A Well, the infiltration operations infiltrating
15
agents into Cuba , exfiltrating agents , hit and run sabotaje
16 raids_ That is about che extent of it.
1 Vaw , when did these operatiors cormence? Was it
13 shortly after the of Pigs?
19 I would I think these operations werc probabl 2
8 20 at their height durirg the period about 1963 through , say ,
8 21 1967 The program was cerminated in" 1968 , I think in Decerber
22 1968 , something like that.
4
23 was the Progran terminated?
1
1 24 A First of all, it was too expensive It wasn E Droia-
8 25 enough intelligence and it simply wasn't rd econonica
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it wasn t feasible to continue these things _ The agents were
~ 2 8 getting Irapped jp . be were we; just felt that the return
3
wasn' t sufficient for what the inves tment was L
You say the agents ere getting wrapped up .
5
Yes _
6
What do You nean that?
When we infiltrated an agent , Cubans would identif:
him and capture him _
9
These various types of paramilitary operations that
16
were conducted by the Agency I trust were approved by che
11 Forty Comuittee?
12
Every operation received a specific approval ?~ {
0 13 the Forty Committee
1
14
In advance?
15
In advance
16 Now what was the procedure for submittina; {o:
17 initiating such an operation?
18 Well, normally in the case of an infil or 3n o:]
7
19
or perhaps we wanted to down the cache
8
i 20
You are referring to a cache of arms
21
A cache of anything , replay of radio, batterlcs
L
22 whatever they might need If we decided that we shou]3 wa:c
4
23
one of these operations and the request woula 9o from here 1
24
over to the , I guess to the white House and then the Forty
4
2
25 Committee at its weekly nee ting they used to neet vefy
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frequently they woula either approve the operation or say
8
no These operations had to be planned well in advarce because
1
the tides had to be right , the moon had to be in the proper
L
phase for comnunications and this cype of thing _ And these
5
things , all these were coordinated with the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, the NavY , the Coast Guard the FBI _ If we were
exiltrating people, the Immigration and Naturalization Service
Every Covernment agency or enforcement agency or military
agency that had any involvement whatsoever, and the entire
10 thing was coordinated
11
Do you know of any such paramilitary operations
12
that [ere run unbeknownst to the Forty Comnittee? 1
0
13
No _
1
14 What kind of volune of operations are we talking
15
about?
15
A You are not talking about a very voluze 0f
17 operations because of the planning that had to go into these
22 things I would say that probably at the height of the thing
19 they may be running three Or four a month No more than thas. 1
C
20 You have heard Eugenio Martinez refer to having
C
21 run 300 operations 1
22 I have seen that_
%
23 Is that inaccurate? 8
5
: 24 A Well, it all depends on what is in his mind . e
2
8 25 may have considered some of the training exercises as opera-
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tions Obviously, these guys trained_ In order to run one
{
of these operations You knov You would have to have a mothar
1
ship in place 2nd rubber boats and dhe ODP} people ta 9o in to L
see if there were nines and this cype of thing on the shore
bfore you go So he nay have considered chat all these train-
exercises were operations but no way did he ever partici-
pate in any three or 400 active operations into Cuba
3
Now from what specific locations were these
G
operations launched?
10
ere mostly launched from Uje'Keygo
13 Any other locations?
12
{ Not to my knowledge _
0 13 Now would You describe for ne the kind of hit and
1
14
run sabotage operations that Were conducted?
15 Nell, we conducted one hit and run sabotage against
16 the Texaco refinery.
Nhat used to be the Texaco refinery?
13 What used to be the Texaco refinery.
13 MR. MANFREDI : Off the record _ 1
8 23 (Discussion off the record . )
21 THE WITNESS : These things , a great amount of planning
L
3 22 went into these things_ [e did 'have a model of the refinery .
4
23 We agonized over the best approach to the refinery and this 1
: 24 type 0f thing to do the most effective damage _ This was run It
0
~ 25 was successful, as I recall not totally successful but it was
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successful operation _ By that, I nean tney 'didn t do as
3
2 much danage as they wanted to because they had to get out
1
because the Cuban defense caze after then It was that type
1
of operation that we did_
As I recall, another time we took a teat in Eo burn
6 some care fields Really , the classical operations that we
7 did in the maritine activizies were the infiltrations and
8 exfiltrations
Were any CIA operations run out of Guantanamo?
10 Not to my knowledge _
11 Was it impractical to use the base there for
12 Well, the base is So surrounded and has been tnat
0
0 13 I think if a guy went through that fence you would carry hic
8
{ 14 back _ He wouldn € walk
15 MR _ MANFREDI : Off the record
16 (Discussion of f the record . )
17 MR . MANF REDI : Bac': on the record
13 BY MR MANFREDI :
19 Are there any other categories of sabotage Mun olt
1
20 @E tle Keys other than what You have just described?
3
6
21 Nell, we did down a cache , if You will sabotage 1
22 kits to be used by our own island agents They contained
4
23 sugar to dump into gas tanks and metal fragments to put dow?
3
5
24 crank cases Things of this nature
=
9
< 25 One of our main objects was to, of course, sabotage
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all the 0il We did that with 3 operation _ wle made our
2 8
Own oil, substandard Adiitives, I should say , rot ojl _ Ie
1
contracted with an Anerican fira Eor that And ive shipped
L
it in through thicd countries in Europe It did hit the target
5
The thing we wanted to get at was the 0il and tbe
automotive machinery on the island . Fie knew it was breaking
down and if we could get a conplete breakdown we would have
everything at a standstill because in chose days the Jutonotive
9 equipment wasn t coning in that rapidly Erom Europe because
10
Castro didn' t hve the money to buy it and they weren t go ing t0
11 extend the credit_
12 The railroad system was in total disaster . The
0 13 Soviets had such a long logistics line supply line, plus
1
14 the fact that the Cubans didn t like the Soviet eguipnent
15 because were used to good American equipment And chese
16 were principal targets that we were trying to get to
In your experie:ze at he Agency can You tnic} 0:
13 any other analogus or Simi!ar paramilitary operations run
19 from a base in the United States?
2
k
20 No _
C
21 I know there has been some paramilitary craicin:) 1
22 in the United States
vi
23 Oh ,
24, In connection wich other operations _
25 A Oh , sure
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But do You know of any paramilitary operations tha=
3
3
were actually run out of the Vnited States?
1
No .
L
As far a5 You know , then , this is a totally uniyu?
situation_
A As far as I am concerned , it is, Yes
Now how large a Navy was actually organized i7
Miami? On a previous occasion you described this to me as
the third largest Navy in the Caribbean
1C That is right.
11 What kird of equiprent did these People hve?
12 We1io wa had 26
honeselyb everyehing Eisom a Canoz
1
0 13 @2 {0 {lssee {o 500 Exot motbez 861p
0
We had Boston haleeso
1
14 Zsubker boatsa Ie had 8 Junbes @G @ree sez0 Ehg 27 r0
5 45 Eoot_lengeba Andehey looked Luke 25ea2 tpibso They 07CG@"
paineaa .nd @hey Looked Like@hey woutan" € @ven {loag [ong2
thex had Ehe {estest nes i0 @heno Thery euld @urru tasy
18 ehing
8
@be Weze
eistnemely wel; arueds We haa @= udere
19 Iatenz denlleton teamg9 We had & @negty
Navy
20 Did €ese @iaze @perate mnaer [on-@EEiezer Go49r
i
21 42 Ele Mliami azea? L
22 Yes
v
23 Wene
ebeize a vagj2ty @E @ovevs @3 was {hege O@Ca
5
6
: 24 21308
1
2
0
25 A_ No Varetya
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Fishing companies?
3
[ell, fishing companies Geodegte_Surveya marine
1
supply In all, I think during the period that the station 1
2od {asg @lben cne_zieg Were Weler conorclal doverd 02 Qoi=
@eEieial crNegd I think Ie had 100 So cover companies
Did ary of these companies actually engage in
legitimate commercial activities?
A Not to my knowledge , no
None of them were any of them in competition with
10
firms in that area?
11
A These are probably Wvhat we would call devlsed
12
1 Laellitic8o They Waig probably reg-stered with the State @E
0 13 Floridaeand eley paid taxes &d Wla (ype 0 ting
0
but 18 @ng
2
{ 14 Was @lam@ @2 Decamme Awowvuv Ce Jpst &r0eged thag @uE 09
existemee and slarted 0pl @ew @Wea
What did Eugenio Nartinez do when he wasn' € r3;t:
these operations?
18 Well he was down this is one of the reasons 4S
132 I told You before we brought him back and put hin under chuc 2
i 20
contract, that retainer, because of the years that he spe:`
C
21 under such strict operationa l discipline d in the_Reyg L
22 Obviously, he didn't stay down there all the tine He
W
M 23
came back he might come back once a nonth or somethin; 1
: 2* like that, to see his Eamily , perhaps once every two Ieeks
2 25 ifage he some tine off.
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I see = So soje of these boats and personnel 'ere 3
8 actually stationed full-time 12 &e Reys
1
On , yes . Oh , sure 1
[ere there any operations run out of the United
States wnich involved destruction of crops or poisoning of
sugar or anyth= of that sort?
What did You have in mind specifically? You mean the
Puerto Rican thing?
A Well, that is one of the things I had in mind =
13 Would you describe that for me?
A Well, this is, I guess you could term it a target of
12 opportuni This was where a vessel was carrying Cuban sugar ;
0 12
to the Soviet Union and I Eorget exactly now what happened to
1
14 it but I know that it got a hole below the waterline, or
15
some thing , and had to puE into Puerto Rico for repairs
In order to repair it, I guess and get it in the
1 7 drydock or wherever it was, they had to remove the sugar and
12 it in the warehouse and at that time' I guess sonebody cane
19 up with a to try to widen the rift between a there was
8
0
2 a rift at that time between the Soviets and Cubans and to
c
21 a harless substance into the sugar that would make it 1
22 acid_ sour tasting, and it wouldn t harm the sugar or the
9
23 indivicual and sone of this was done And then when it
:
5
: 24 leaked _ of course, we had to get rid of it and We had a sugar
2
25 firm it back from the Soviets .
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8
{ Bought it back Erom the Soviets?
8
Yes
1
MR . MANFREDI : off the record _
L
4
(Discussion off the record . )
5
MR MANFREDI : Back on the record
6
BY MR _ MANFREDI :
7
Are there any other operations in which crops were
8
were there attempts to destroy crops in Cuba?
No No _
16"
Place Eoreign substances in Cuban products?
11 In Cuban products?
12
Yes . 1
0
13
No . Not that I recall You see, Cuba really in
8
3 14 those days the only thing , Cuba was exporting sugar and nickel
15 The agriculture sector of the economy was in absolutely tota]
1C chaos God , they didn t have any citrus they didn't have
17 anything, and the poor people in Cuba were literally starving
12 There just wasn t anything to eat And Fidel was going around
19 with this big plan of course, there were a nuber 0 € 1
i 23 experimental cattle ranches in Cuba Ranch had one there
21 I forget t t several other European and Nerican companies that
L
22 had experimental cattle ranches there and they were experiment-
W
M 23_ with the You know _ cross-breeding and this type of thing _
1
: 24 Fidel was preoccupied with chis He went up to
2
25 cagda paid S100 , 000 a bull and So he just put it
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on an old Cuban 1 irways airplane The &aan airplane few too
{
high and the bul} became sterile by the time he landed in
1
Cuba No thought given to , You kno , pressurizing che cabin
1
and keeping the temperature at a certain point and this trpe
of thing _ So he Ias he lping 4S all along the line and
this here again, {e generate propaganda _ inconpetence and this
7
type of. thing
3
But as far as sabotaging any Cuban product , no , w@
9
didn't 9o into thaf. Our object was to enforce the blockade
1C
and cut off his sources of sup?ly.
11
Fhen Bas the Miani Station established?
12
As a station? ;
€ 13
Yes .
1
14
I think in Septenber 1961
15 And that was several Years before you becane involved
16 in Cuban matters?
1: Yes.
18 Do you know of any other facilities o € that na-ure
19 within the United States Agency facilities? 1
5 20 A You nean , targeted against the opposition?
21 Yes .
L
22 A station as such?
W
v 23 Yes . 1
1 24 No . You have sone conunications facilities that
c
+9 25 you really call stations because here again, they are rof
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8
directed towards ary donestic activity. They are in support 0f
1
3 overseas communications
1
Of course, we have FRbbases ana DCD offices and
L
Office of Security officers , and So forth
Right _
But I am talking about actual stations
7 Operating stations , no
This is the only such station in the United Statcs
9 as far as you know , is that correct?
10 Right _
11 And was this station established to deal prirariy
12 with Cuban activities?
{
A Yes _
@ 13
1
14
Cuban-related matters?
5 With Cuba , period _
Did it have , when it was established any o:her
responsibilities with respect to Western #emisphere Jc: :'1'6
12 Not to ny knowledge
Entirely limited , then , to Cuban activities?
13
1
Yes , and in support of Cuban activity and ok ?
23 s
21
countries in the Hemisphere L
22
When you joined the group dealing with Cuban
5
activities, what was the size or the number of personne
23
1
attached to that Station?
24
:
2 To that Station? Well, the Station had probab ly
25
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couple hundred staffers there, full-time employees of the
3
Agency , plus I don ' t know how many contract employees
1
independent contractors probably another 200 ninimum IE was 2
obviously the largest installation we had _ I think at its
height it had over 500 people in it.
Full-tine Agency people?
A No , no
8
Combination of contract and
9
And full-time, yes . A regular employee we call a sti-
10
employee.
11
Now , Iould Martinez have been one of those contract
12
1 people?
0
13
A Yes.
E
{ 14 Even though he was located dwn d@ tha Reye?
15 Oh , yes
2 ; And what kind of facilities did the Stazion have 1 ?
17 Miami? Physical facilities
12 A Well, they were located 6q Jha Bouth @awpus @2 Gha
13 @aiereley @; Rlorddan I_Iwed, tba Wlvecaity @f Miani0 26 1
0
20 Eka old Bielond Nawal ag 3tation; It was a self-contained
6
2 unit_ It Ivas pretty well off the beaten path , in fact, dcn L
22 well off the beaten Path Jt was about [our niles fren "ehe
4
6
23 Dlzie @iguiiay inlandot Me had our Own guara force
1
: 24 Official cover?
9
7 25
A No . {Won-@E2i@a1
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2
{ Ion-@CELelal @9iez What was the cover?
At 8
A It was 4 @etmmerejal @Uer? It was called ehe %803r
1
@w9
wag Gagled Z@nith Cosporagiow vawd IG W2s set @2 witl a
L
Ruegident end Viee @regidezee Woxjllall_cosperate get@a
Engaging in any business?
No
Now , in a comunity of that type , Cuban conmuri
how long could Q2-01214l @over last?
9
A Mell, obviously it didn t, but it was research
1 activities _ Funded ie is 01
{942nt_medhan14n When_You put
11 rone' 0i eese Eings 30 Eos ehel Eunalag and &his tee @E ebinga]
12 fo% youz @sgenaible CuS1ame1b p @Beab1leking badk @@zounts - [
13 Yes, I understand
1
14 So it was a research activity and the only people tha
ever paid any attention to the place were the newspapers You
know somebody would make an inquiry , you knoi we can't acczpt
any work, we are loaded with Government contracts and this
18 type of thing_ 40 held 4p geabonably well
0
And @e @1
2? @i8 @1Q
@uznga @2 @oii8@p tkea we ware Sctn@ Ebese nnunera=)
1
x Ble oter Gokrs wleh dioEorene aceivieies The guard
C
2 force, of course, were like well, they wore uniforms Similar 1
22 to the Pinkerton people and this type of thing _ And I thirk
4
23 that there was in the later days at that site I think the
1
0 2 Depastmeng @2 Agzieulluseghad offices in there and some other
8
25 Governnent agencies _ in other buildings , of course
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2
And this particular Station, then , was under the
3
: supervision of the group we nave been discussing?
1
Yes _ They were steffed within the Cuban Operatiors
1
When did the Wesker3 Hemisphere Division resume
responsibilities Eor the Miani Station?
Well, when Des Fitzgerald left as Chiee o€ the
Special Activities Staff and becane Chief of the Western
Henisphere Division , he brought it back into the Division
18 teheze piegenely 0 Miemi stacion?
1C Yesa
Zbrtn 11 Avnd hov Large 18 i€ @1 the preseng Gune?
12 A WelLo Bimde 0B 3 Elik when we @losed down khe
1
0 13 SCuba@ @perationsg 1 @on { kanow holv Levge: 4€-18 at &he present
1
14 #ime Jegauge He ar9 10 @Wa @G Ubese perlods were_we ax8
15 Reag3iging people; bue 1 Ehink eha end @@ +hls 2iscal Zea5
F@lere ase 90ing 10 Ja baeweza 11 ewa 4G pe@ple
0
1 When You joined che group in 1963 , what funct10n5
12 were
being perforred the Miami Station?
9 Well_ all the classical intelligence functions
0 8
20 think I have lined then olt at one time a collection of
U
C
21 positive intelligence, counterintelligence paranilitary, this 7
22 type of thing _ Covert action
v
23 This is the list of things you gave ne earlier in
11
: 24 the deposition?
2
25 Yes .
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8
Which of these activities if any of then were 3
4 8 actually being concucted within the Cuban cornunity in Miati?
3
Well tha collection of Eoreign positive and probabl;
L
counterintelligence =
So the Agency was conducting counterintelligence
activities in the Miami area?
Yes , sir.
8
Can you give me an example of the kinds of counter-
9 intelligence activities that the Agency would be conducting
10
in that area or was conducting in the area at that tine ?
11 Well, we had a nunber of joint operations _ as I
12
recall, with the Bureau. wle had identified a Castro asent chj 1
0 13
came in bY small boat and when she was she cane in with J
1
14
number of other people _ When she hit the they had a reccp-
15 tion center up in Opa Loca that was really a HEN operation
16
The Domestic Contact Division office had people out chere 2:
17
we did, too . Our people from the DDO Wexa nder Iunigragion
13 240 Nattalizatiom Selvige goveg When the EEDT people Jid tra
19 preliminary interrzgation of: these people they had to f i!]
2
23
out forms , where were You born, this type of thing , biogra;hic
8
21 type thing . These forns would be passed to our people who Voul:] 1
22 look at the forms and bascd on
previous experience or What
W
4 23 they might have been doing , nd they felt that perhaps they
11
: 24 might have some information of intelligence value, they would
2
25 reinterrogate then
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7
It was in this manner that this came to our
{
knowledge _ We surveilled her for a lorg time and dctermined
1
that obviously she was receiving messages and she was L
sending messages _ So along with the Bureau we Put 3 surveillan:
on her and we obtained a van with DF equipnent in it and
indeed , she went on the air in the morning at 5:00 0 ' clock
or 4 : 30 or whatever it was, and the direction Einder found
it was being beaned toward Cuba , this type of thing _ and that
9
was oen of the exanples of the CI activities we were involvcd
10
in.
11
Q- Were there many activities of that type?
12
1 A Not really. You have got to remember that the
0 13
Bureau 5 Cuban squad was fairly small I mean, it w2s 4 Txr ;C 1
14 squad in terms of FBI squads It had 36 People on it, Soze
15 thing like that, but 36 people trying to follow a couple 39
16 hundred thousand Cubans around _ you know it is Prett? 3;] ~
17
tive This was one of the reasons that obviously [ro;
18
in those days when we had forned these revolutionary {ront $
19 which were being ren by the Cuban exiles , they Iverc report [ :; 3
i 23
to Case officers and they would report on things in the
21 L
communi of people they thought were suspect and this type
22 of thing _ These leads in turn were then given to che Burej'
4
23 and it was to this extent that we got ourselves involved 1
: 24 in CI activity.
0
4 25 Mould it be fair to say that the involvement 1r C!
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3 activities in thac area was marily 3 function of the over_
2
whelning number of these people and tne Bureau S inability
3
to properly staf€ the thing? 1
A Yes, yes You have to remenber , too , that a lo:
of the people on that Cuban squad Ivere in the legal section
of the Embassy in Havana You know the FBI overseas
known as Legal Attaches , obviously Iorking out of the Erbassy
the same as our Station Ivas , and a lot of our Station officers
from Havana were down in Miaji at that tine _ So there was a
10
relationship there that had gone over a period of years
11
between the Agency and the Bureau
12
{ MR MANFREDI : We Will reconvene at 1:00 0 ' clock .
4 13
(Whereupon , at 11:45 0 'clock a.m . , the taking 0 f 1
1
the deposition Was recessed , to reconvene at 1:00 P.n., this
15
same day .)
12
19
2
20
5
2 7
22
W
vi
23
1
2 24
2
25
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2 AFCIR:OON SRSSIO:
3
5
~erearon ,
{
WILLI:: (. STURBIT?S
L
called 25 a Iitness bv Counsel for the Comnission on CIA
Activities, and having been first dluly sworn hy the Motary
Public, Was exanined} andl testified as follows:
EXAMINATION RY COG:SEL FOR TFIE CO ISSIO: (Cont'&)
BY :R. MANPRFDI:
(hen we recessed for lunch vou were talking about the
Miami Station Do I understand that the Miami Station 62s tha 1;
largest CIA station in the world?
11
1 The largest CIA station in the world _
12
{
At its height?
0 17
1 Nothing comes any?lace close to it_
I fonder if vou could describe briefly for the record
15
Ihat thel MOFS were
16
A Well, the WlOISI were Cuban a Cuban intelliqerce
organization in exile Vle fmll intended this was part 0f thal
overall contingency nlan that US Governnent had_ Should Casara
1
ever be overthrown , these peonle would be the necleus to To inzc
j
C Cuba anri form a new Ministrv of the Interior.
2 ! 1
Now, Ministrv of the Interior, is that a euphenisn
22
4 for Security Agency?
2
1
As {Jell, in nost countries of the world the Ninistry of
: 2
Interior, unlike ours, is the securi force, internal and 9 25
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1
And these pcople vrc Cnban exiles?
3
{ Cuhan e:iles_
1
How larte an outfi : were theln1t3?
Fell, at one tine t # I can Jive You the exact figures
but I knor it Iel 1 exceeded over 109 , prohably closer Lo t
Go ahead
A Probablv closer to 150, sonething like that
Now would that 150 persons he included within the
three to 500 who_nade 0p the :iami Station?
i) No .
11 That Was over and ahove the personnel of the Miani
Station?
12
[
A_ Richt _
0 13
2
{ 14
These people were falltine CIA enployes, weren' t chev?.
A Right
0 [SF11 let ne L these people really were
they were being suhsidized bv the Aqencv _ Thav wene Ernlexed?
@ @ver_eonnaaieso Ghe Lazgiesz @€ wich wa8 @alle Eagin
Nezican Bociel and Ecomomie Reseaneha) Then we had Jnother
13
smaller Group that dlid the interrogating and they were under
3.3
2
another @oVe5 b @@Lerclal @overd i just don t recall what i t
6 2C
0
was_ B€ ehese_ee@po@ @stenslblv were @@plovces @E IhalLzc'
2 7
@Wned lE@eietarjes @E the_Aramev ghev were dulw| @ons€ieueed,
22
4 Iacoroora lcd;paia 6azos0 242 ehig Ge@eehznga
2
1
The salaries 0f these peonle, althouch paid indirectl"
: 2
2 were naid the CIA?
25
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2 That i5 richt.
{
Andl was trjining Drovided thn- bv che IJencw? 8
3
Oh , ves_
1
A Yon said the Sc)ler Group 0f che two Jrouns shat Na;?
up the 4a31045 conducted the interrojations , is that correct?
Right_
When voI speak of interrogations are You re ferring tc
debriefings?
A I am referring to debriefings of newly arrived exiles
1C or perhaps exiles that ha:l hcen in the countr;" whon durin: thei-
time here had acquirc-l ne infornation.
11
How were those how and where were those Jebriefin:]
12
{
conducted?
0 13
Well, norna ]ly tha dlehriefings Kere condnczed at 0n.1
{ 14
Loca
15
That is che Air Pase?
A That i5 Fhe 0 lc] Air Base chere hnt that is ver.
reception center Wva ? for a1] the Cuban refngees corir: i 7
7 8
Sometines if there as Goira to be a lengthv debriefing, WC 1os?d]
20 6
a residence mhich we rented and the interior Ivas chanaec 1nto
21 1
smal1 roons like this where "OM could bring people in, 3it a#cn
22
4 down , under controlled cond :+ions and clebrief then vithont anv
23
1
interference and this tvpe o€ thinq _
: 24
2 For how long a pcriod did these debriefings 70
25
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on?
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8
4 Yon nea - '1 ter:s Of vears?
1
J Yes.
2
1 13 Well, I Xnuldl tiin: that I would prohahlv sav Erc
about 1962 , and 1 tlink che delriefinjs as such , of Conz:e
we relied principallv on the airlift for the naople co-1# out
and whan the airlift was ct off , which Castro dic 4 cic of f
about, I quess about 1970 or in that tinefrane
6 I see.
A that stonned tne flow of the re fugees, So We jus:
18 terminated that part of the activitv.
Well, in addition +o clebriefing ref gecs tw! ~c
12
in in tke airlift, dlid the sna iler Trou? 0f @li} have
43' oihcr
1
intellicence gathering functicns
0 13
1
A. NO .
14
In the co-nunity?
15
A Well, I can't Tive vou a real ves or no co tm: .
would suppose that chere 1$ 37 outside possibility t? ~2
have been used to debrief people within the connunit , '4!>:7
the Cuban communiti_ but we had in the ortanization
5 4 : |
1
people were Cuban With the exception of we had Iha: we c.: [ an 23 2
On-Site Case Officer , who was a fulltine staff emplo ce a3 7+ L
had a couple of assistants, ircluding a secretarv_ These Vco:*
22
J were directly under his control Though the organization 4$ !€
23
J was set :P6 hac their 0;n chief this type 6hfn
24
2 but the chief took his inseructions fron the On-Site (As' n:: ;f2r
25
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2 Of Fourse, if these peonle ~ent out and dia? sonethinc on
3
their r; ( they coulal do things We Wvere not aware of, obviousl: 8
3 You can' € D Yo! know That thev are doing during their eicht or
ten hours that thev Rre goirg to work evervciav hut once they
leave , V@ don' t know wvhat they are up to .
Did they hve CIA credlentials?
A. No sir, becaulse (@hev Iverze PEepEiecanav hizes @2 2hisd
3
@@mercqal @oer_
Did CIA levy anv intelligence requirenents upon these
people other than in their cluties in their debriefing
13
capaci- I should sav?
11
A No . When m there were obviously there was a 12
{
stardard dlebriefing forn that covered questions of inteflicczc?
6 13
1
interest or a battle, You know anything
I econonic (jues: ions _
1:
morale, and this type of thing When these questions D_m Ihe?
15
these people were cebriefed and the debrinfer Wrot '
report, it would be sent from thel d5o1a} over to the St ?i0.:
If the debriefing report contained something of cositive
18
intelligence, of that nature, the Case Officer
5 e w2ll, C: t':
13
1
Case Officer but 7 staffer in the Station nay or mav not Jot
2J i
down sone additional requirenents and ask that that person hc
2]
L
recontacted and askea specific Tuestions
22
5 Vow , in addition to debriefing, what else dlid chi:
3
J smaller broup of0 483@3S} do for the Agencv in the Miami aro ?
: 34
2 A This was their prine Durnose'
25
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flow larje Nas that particular groun?
3
Oh , thers wre only ahout, I woule say at the oiltsice_ }
1
I thin' tiiere Xero ahut fivo Jcbriefers vith the support neopi
1
which :0"ld he secrctaries, translators , strictlv 3 ninistrati _
types _ I don' t thin} there Xore more than prolsahlv 12 or 15
in that Froup, i€ there were Lhat manv .
M?a :IAYFPRDI: Off the record _
(0:= the record discussio:)
FY `. MANFRFI: Rack 0n the record =
Before TC nove on +o further discussion of thel ME0T5
1 1
could vou brieflv descrihe for me vhat role the CIA plays
12
resettling Cuban erigres?
1
CIA doesn' t resettle Cuban emigres _
4 13
1
What Agency is charged with that responsibility?
A Health, Eccation and Nelfare _
Does CIA ol3v any role in that process?
Ne Nav as;ist i f ~@ are askec bnt the iden of tha xi:
airlift Nas having relatives here for sonebodv to clain Vou {hew
12
you care in So von wonldn' t become a ward of the State of th:
19
1
Governrent , and nor ally when: these refugees came in, thev ~ere
21 8
processed through the Center and then thev had a place down on
2 L
Biscavne Boulevard thev called Freedon House and this was, 0€
22
4 course, run by MEI and they a D if need he and thev had to
23
;
J stay overnight or stav several davs , MFT 'ould put them ep ard
7
~
2 care for then in Freedon Jouse.
25
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Zher 2s Soor ~nev coula of course , thev wonld 7ove 2i807
1
4 to tke Arpas wherc cww wanted to resettle then, vhera the
8
1 relati:es were, this 0"?e of thing, an:l Ie hal noth::g to 40
1
Wvith tblt xhatsoevel .
Turning hnc'= to
theGienusa
ancl to che l2rccr o€ chc
tio gron?s, what Ka;; the nane 0 € that grow again?
A S1SER2-La%ga darieen Secial apd_naonomie Resean@h
We can ca) ! then IASERE for short?
A Really , thev are hoth the onlv reason we separatsd
the two groups was for securit: hecause Ve had one aroup houseri
ii:
over here and the sfler roi Ivas over here. Obvions!y w? i1
couldn + hring these re fugees into the larger establishnent , So 12
1
that is we took che snailer establishnent to prese2v@ 8oso2}
0 13
1
14
Gover_
Okay- Mhat activities was the larger grou; enqajed
15
in?
AJ [YEII, the 1nracr Gr :) was engaqed in 6h12 coilecti?
of intelligence = Zhey conniled dossiers 07 the prinzipa ! $
34
inside Cuha. They carded un thev kept card files on every
19
1
refugee that came +hrough the reception center Tkov orovideri
i
they dial (0 econonic and social reportinj. Thev put out a
21 L
monthly rewsletter based on the infornation they col lected .
23
4 The information chese peonle collected as opposec to th?
23
1
information we collected thez' $ was all unclassified . That
: 24
9 cane from 4 ~ all the infornation thev had cane Erom human so :rce-
4 25
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or overt publicatic:s. ke secscribed L well, the nropriet-r
L
subscribed to a "EW, 7 arcat nany noaspaners , Periodizalc,
8
Spanish language tve things_
1
Well , tne: were (oifg clandestire collections as Wel: 1
weren' thzy?
A I don t know if You conld call i € clan:lestine. #hat
did you have in Rinf?
Well, would thev r17 agents in the cornnity?
A Rell, ves, chere nere penetrations of the Cuban
community, yes .
J:
And thac is clanestine collection , isn' t it?
11
A_ REll, I call that human resources .
12
All right. Ihere are these_ files now? 1
0
13
A They are in the Ileadquarters here. A great r:ry
1
( then Were really destroved _ It got to be rather comic. Ve
7
went down there several vears aqo just looking through ch:: fii03
16
to see what kind of shape the: were in and thev had such ctent
information for intel!irense value in there as a picture Q:
38 who might be the daughter of a Cuhan refngee who J"t #on
19
a swimming meet. It Jot rather ridiculous So we pures ! ~kose 1
2
2c files and took out that naterial, vo know_ which just 'i-r',
21 have ary pertinancy at a]] .
L
22 How are the files organized? You indicated heforc
4
8
23 there is a card , index card {or each Cuban refugee?
J
: 24 As Right.
2
25 Are there soft cover files as well?
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Yes J7
J For eacn Citban refuqee?
8
1
A. No . Mo: each Cunan refucee. I think , a5 I
L
recall , those ca-: Files 6e-e up in the milli-ns ani I forgot,
we had I quess tre riznilla files, prohahly went into zhe tens
of thousands, I Iould think
Now i3 tilere any ay to determine fron those files
which 0f those exiies have hecoze United States citizens?
A No way ._
Has there been any effort to make such a deterrin-
18
tion?
A We made 2n effort at one tine but this Vo; C.x 18
1
become n4 tionalized out in California and vour reccrd 0f
0 13
g
nationilization Wonlen t he reflected here in Mashir::eon 8 14
two Years. That is how far thev are behind_
So I take it
So there i3 :0 ce.::ral indlex voh Cin 70 10 _
there is a central indlex You can go to but it is no : cwrri:
I take it, then, that there is a
rossibilitv t
1
CIA has sone files i3 Miari or here in Ianalev on Cuix ~' 1
5
are now American citizens?
21 1
A Absolutelv true
22
y Nol , are anv 0f those Files likelv to cantain
23
1
derogator informiatinn abou: the individuals involved?
:
2 Vell, no One of the things these neople dJ , 0 :
26
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7 course, 1e had +a'-ets Eor recrmitent . It could range frcr
3 anythim: from 3 Eirst mate, 2 captain or chief engineer of 2
3 Cuban neritime Ves;l to Fidel_ When we targeted these people
as nossible recr itnents for possible recritnent, we wouldl ask
that al ! the infornation on that individual be assenhled So thaz
we coulc do 2 complete target study habits You krow
everythir right do:m the line. In case of some of the nore.
important ones, of course, wie had psvchological studies prepazer
where we had enough infornation. Rut this is one of the things
these people did _ If we said ve Ivant everything you have 07 the
first rate of the one of the Cuban ships, then thev woul::
start looking through the papers or anything else to com2 42 18
1
with anything thev could on Ihat the guY 5 current activieie;
0 J :
2
:
are, his hackground , his life habits , this tvpe of thing
Well the A1ozs ere going to be the intelliccnca
service of Cuba?
A_ Right_
And thev obvious]: were going to perform sore Fucen:)?
in addition to recriitnent of agents?
1
A Right.
:
I take it thev were trained in counterintelligencc =
1
gathering of positive intelligence, recruitment and all ck
22
4 traditional skills, is that correct?
;
5 That is ahout riant.
:
So I trust that they had files that were arissed for
2
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2
purposes other than recruitnent?
{
2 A. Well {
1 3 For exanple, let ne ask you this_ Nere any of these
1
files on Cubans who were suspectea or thought to he a possible
internal security problem?
1 No . No . They didn t keep those types of files. We
would sinply task then with through your sources what do You
have on So and So , They would not be told the reason we
wanted the infornation on anybody .
Well, I guess with several million fiels or several
10
million cards and tens of thousands of files it is difficult to
11
make generalizations about the kind of information that is in
12
{
those files?
0 13
8 Nell, that is righta
2 14
So I guess I won ' t ask You to do SO , but I want to as}
15
you this_ I trust that there is the possibility that some of
16
these files do contain what you in the trade refer to as deroga
17
tory information?
18
I would assume So
19
1
And that So nuch of them may sone of the subjects
20
8
of those files mav now he American citizens?
21 1
22
Right.
4 And finally I take it that no e ffort has been made to
23
1
study that particular situation?
24
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1
You krow_ we have a traveler program where when Cubans
travel
8 2 wkether they are on an island or perhaps other places , thcir
1
5 names turn up on nanifests and this type of thing . Well _ these
are put into a machine system_ What we did when these cards
were all transferred back here in Miani
0 we did go through the:
6 at randon and pick out cards and then try to match it with up
what the machine svsten had to see if there Mas updated inforna-_
tion in the machine system that would show that this had quy
become a naturalizedl citizen, and it didn't work out'. So
10 Excuse ne , off the record_
11
(Off the record discussion)
12
MRa MANFREDI: Back on the record_
1
BY MR . MANFREDI :
0 13
8
} 14 I want to straighten out confusion in my Own mind
15
where these files presently reside_ The cards I take it are
16
presently here in Washington?
17 A The cards and what is left of the files.
18
That is the soft cover files?
A Yes .
(
19
8
And
20 8
21
A I assume are either here or down at the 7
22
Records Center
4 And where is the conputer system? 23
1
A You mean our machine system? Ne have
6 24
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8
information on the cards?
3
3 2 A_ Right on the thizd floor _
1
5 That is not tle hydlro systen?
L
4 A: Oh , no, no
5 This is a separate
A This is 7 conplete only the Tatin Anerican Diision'
uses this particular system.
8 What kind of records etrike that.
9 The HHOES are still in existence , aren' t thev?
A No . 10
11
T +hought thev pere going out in June_
Mell, okav . They are on the books until June
12
0
I see
4 13
1
A But they have all been let 9O . were let 9o 14
they were all given Six nonths terninatior honses and t?h to 15
go find a job.
16
Do have any facilities, physical facilities, in
17
Miami at this time?
18
1 no,
19
1
So there are no records in Miani?
20 i
A No . Na Ne hrovht all those records back here
21 7
Did theLABOts: have law enforcement responsibilities
22
W
vi in the Miami community?
23
1
A No . No .
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A Not t0 N: knowledge _ 1
2 what else did thev clo, this larger group O fpaho1Sthat
8
1
was not doing debriefings?
1
F Nell hen they were trained in trade craft we woulr
5 send them to other countries , in Furope and within the Ilenispherc
to train sone of the local services in those countries _ Thev
served as safe housekeepers in other countries. They served in
listening posts where we hadl audio
9
Foreign listening posts?
A Oh , yes , foreign _
10
Any domestic listening posts?
11
A No , no 12
{
Any domestic surveillances conducted by these neopl e?
0 13
1
A I would assume t this I cannot answer hecause 70:
14
don' t know. I know that they did a great nunber of c*i3;; {m:
15
to mY knowledge there wasn't anv domestic surveillance
16
conducted by then _
17
Now if it was conducted, and if it is a matter 0f recor :
18
I don t know where it could he _
19
2
What intelligence ga thering activities did thev
20 i
conduct in the Cuban connunity in Miami?
21 L
A One of the big problems we had was within that Cun
22
W community , as I said earlier , were some of the militant aJti-
v 23
1
'zgroups and this just drove the FBI and the Coast Guara]
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8 agencies in Miani plus the State government enforcement agencies
1
2 up the wall an:, 0E course, I guess it was around L the
3
1 Government allowed a lot of this to go on for awhile but I guess
L
about 1965 or 1964 they got a little tired of it and they
4
5
started to tighten up.
I am sure theCW@ESI were in part responsible for proposing
alerting us and in turn we alerted the enforcenent agencies when;
there was going to he a raid against Cuba one of these
militant groups A number of times raids were aborted , picked
up by the Coast Guard or Florida Coastal Patrol or the Bureal,
10
this type of thing .
11
These people were arrested?
12
{
Oh , yes .
0 13
1
14
Prosecuted?
Not really.
15
Any of them American citizens?
16
Not to mv knowledge.
17
This would be Alpha 66 tvpe groups?
18
A I don t know whether this quy t I well_ You know they
19
1
are still after this Masferrer and this guy Donestevez. I don '
20 8
know if they ever did get him in jail but they had him up on
21 L
So many charges and he was a Cuban exile that made it big here .
22
4 He was a boat manufacturer snall boats, but whether he ever
23
1
served any time Or not I don't know I know he was convicted
$ 24
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8 I truthfully don t know whether any of these people ever went
3
to jaul or not _ {
1 Other than identifying operations by militant anti_
1 Castro groups , what other intelligence gathering did the MoES
engage in?
A Well, of course, there was 3 counterintelligence
I wouldn't call it a project but a counterintelligence interest
8
at that tine because we knew that they were infiltrating agents
5
Cubans were?
A The Cuban Governnent . couldn' t do it very well 10
on the airlift because as I said before the aged
8
infirm, and 11
young , but they did infiltrate them by small boat. And I don" t 12
1
Gaon
well_
0 we had knowledge that this was on and we did try
0 13
8 identify those, people whom we thought would be suspect _
} 14
Was that done in cooperation with the Bureau?
15
A: with the Bureau , ves .
16
Because of their manpower limitations you folks were
1 7
in a better position to do it?
18
A Yes , and language-wise, too, That is always a
19
1
factor
U
20
G And this was conducted through the62W0z32
21 |
Yes
22
W How substantial was the counterintelligence operation
07 23
1
in the community?
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16 SEcRET
8 sould czll a great nurber of suspect infiltrees, but thev Iid
J
cone up with a few pronising ones and ones it turned over to th?
2
1 Bureau, of course , Xe have 70 idea what the hell ever happens
1
4 to it because, vo' !nol , vou just L unless vou persona kno
the guy in the furezn that is handling the case, vou night a5
well forget it. Yo1l have got too many other things to do
What other positive intelliqence gathering activities
were they engaging in?
A Well, as I told vou , one part of them were engaced in
9
10
elegeronicinterce1ea
Where was that done?
11
A. Down in Florda dtalm 0 .omestead
12
{
This is Southeast of Bonestead3]
1 13
2
14
Yes .
What ere thev ineercereins?
15
A Well, originally they were set up to assist Xith il1e
16
commo for the infiltration .
17
As we phased dctn the naritine activities, thev Kere nadd
13
available to Entoncenl Cuban connicaeionss DSA _agka chen_wicn)
7
19
8
ehe Eiequeneies Ehes wanled @ouered ana {e Cuban @ouneacionsi
U 20
6
nels waneed covered2 such as the border guards _ Another
21 L
important one was the sugar network_ We had the border guards,
22
y sugar , transportation, maritine_ I think there was an interior
23
1
network they covered too Bug alleleceronic_inntercept_Comer
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8 No1v , since thev belorg to Us we could levy ceratin require
3
2 nents on then i€ we wanter to, which we did very infrequently
3
1
5
because the cojnron interests, we have a common interest in
1
what N8A has an interest in and unless there ere one particular
4
operation going that thev wanted to cover exactly Khat the Cuban.;
5
were doing , then we would task our people with that.
For instance, we knew a Cuban vessel was taking arns into
Africa and our operators saw the thing leava Iavana and then
there was absolute silence So nobody knew ihere the thing WJs
But we knew arns were being loaded and we finally located the
10
boat in an Africar port, I nean the Ine@xgeng @2eraco5s @Ian 5z
11
it cane back on the air And this is the type of thing_ As
12
1
a matter of fact, they were unloading arms in Algiers Aad 200
0 13
1 Cuban troops
14
MR . MANFREDI: Of f che record_
15
(Off the record discussion)
16
MR . MANFREDI : Let' $ 9o back on the record_
17
BY MR . MANFREDI:
13
Were the
@ouneal1onSrChey [eze Incercepe_ng
19
1 exclusively foreignE @ouunzdagzong
20
i
A Exclusively foreign connunieaejanse
21 1
Werc tney (Dncergenerhozany @onmunicat onsy one ternin:;
22
W of Ihich was the ted States?
5 23
1
A No .
H# 50955 DOId:322f3861 Page 78
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76
N Right.
2
3 On the Island?
3
A Right.
1
0 Or between the Island and other locations? L
Yes.
But not between the Island and the United States?
A NO . Let' s Jo of€ the record on that.
(Off
the record discussion)
8
BY MR . MANFRRDI :
9
To Your know ledge Bere theQEA@ES} engaging
1 7 thc
1c
jntergert @€ an coriunicag-onsa-eieher that zaezliey
or 2[sc-
11
where , in the Miani area or in the southern part of the country?
12
{ A No .
0 13
Of other @@runicationsi
3
3 14
A No .
15
Is that cheir orlyE@e@mcabsl facility?
16
1 (Nods affirmative)
1
Do you know of your own personal knowledge
4'-::
l2
that. Do you have anv knowledge of any wiretaps , survc1 ] ' a;ces,
19
breakins or activities of thgt type other than what 6e have 2
20 i discussed
21
No sir.
L
22
that were conducted the"U@zS
4
23
No sir, I want to 7o off the record a minute. 1
: 24 ~Page(Q6f the record discussion)
H 50955 DocId:32203861
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77 SzcREt
BY MR . MANFREDI: {
{
I undlerstand that a study of the history of theG6oEE
4 2 8
has been prepared by one oE your menbers . 1
3
1 A That is right .
What is his nane?
A I think it is Joaquin aa I can t remember the last
nane The poor guy is dead row anyway . Well, I will just have
to get that for You .
TYhat is the title of the study?
A The title of the study
4 it is part of the historicai
16
series of the Miani Station and I think it is just entitled "The
11
FAOT Organization.
12
1
What is the historical series of the Miami Station?
0
13
A Ie c2g 1249nhen_paw Hennessev wasrdam chezez Vhat 1
14
Ie try to do as we go alonc_ Erom year to vear is set aside
15
what is considered to he some of the more siginificant things
16
the station might do or that might occur in the station Personn
17
wise, this tvpe of thing, and then these things are written.
13
I see.
19
1
A At intervening periods of time_
20 9
When was this particular report prepared Cba NOz5
2 1
I think it was prelared in 1967 or '68,
22
It is a fairly lengthy docunent , isn't it?
4
23
1 Yes .
HI 50955
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78
8 activities of ther @iio2s?
J It starts back in 1959 when we first started using 3
{ this gent.
1
First started using what?
First started using , I forget what his name was
I see, Is it a chronological studv of their activi-
ties?
Yes
And you have a copv of that in your custody?
16
Yes .
I would like to see that document _ And we will
11
and obtain it through Hank Knoche S office.
12
{
Okav.
0 12
8
Excuse me just for a minute.
2 14
(Off the record discussion)
16
MR . MANFREDI: On the record_
16
BY MR . MANPRFDI: I wonder if you would let me ask Youl
1 7
this. There have heen some allegations in the press that
12
prominent newsmen in be Miami area have in the past been agents
19
1
of the CIA
20
8
Mr . Olsen just cane into the office and I asked him to join
21 L
us because sone of vour involvement in Cuban activities in the
22
4 Agency in the Miani area touch peripherally on some of the thing
23
1
had has been charged with investigating , So I am going to turn
: 24
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{
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S2CR5T 79
MR. OLSFN : Thank Vo! , George_
1
RY MR - OLSE: :
2 {
Can Yol begin, since I hava not been in on the begin-
3
ning of the interview here, can start off , Mr. Sturbitts,
1
by giving me ahout a one or two minute resune of what your
contacts lere with the Cuban elements in Florida and elsewhere
withing this country on behalf of the Agencv?
A Well, I Ias a menher of the Special Activities Staff
which was in effect the Cuban task force at Headquarters and tha
Miani Station functioned under the Special Activities Staff in
10
a variety of intelligence collection and operations _
11
Who was the head of the Special Activities Staf E?
12
1 Desmond Fitzgerald_
0 13
And who was his inediate superior?
1
14
A Dick Bissell Rxcuse me No . At that time it was
15
Dick Helns . He was the DEP _
16
Deputy Director for Plans?
17
Deptutv Director for Plans
13 Nhat period of tine are we talking about now?
0
19
A We are talking in the period of 1963 to 1965 _
8
U 20
MR. MANFREDI: oef the record_
c
21 (Off the record discussion)
|
22
BY MR . OLSEN :
W
0 23 So you were not involved in this Special Activities
1
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SzcREt 80
Or the reriod leading up to the Bav of Piqs?
8
j A No .
8
And yon werc not involved in this progran Jt all duri:
1
3
the sane time that E, owvard Hunt was involved in it? 1
A No .
Do You know what the position was Mr & Hunt occupied in
connection with the Cuban operations of the Agency during the
period of 1959 to '61?
A To ny recollection, Howard Hunt was on the Covert
Action Staff dealing in nropaganda .
10
Was this propaganda directed to the Guban people in
11
this country?
12
{ No _ Cuhan people abroad.
0 13
And what was his connection with the planning for the 1
14
of Pigs?
15
A I woula have to review the record to rea l lv answcr
16
that. I don' t know
17
Didn t he spend an awful lot of time in the Xiani
12
area?
19
A He commuted quite a hit. 1
20 : Between Mashington and
2
A Washington and Miami
L
22
and Miami During the period of 1960 and early
5
23
'61? 1
= 24
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SECRET 8 1
2 published naterials that he ~as the person Iho was in charge of
7
~
organizing a political mnit amon] Cubans in this couatry which
8
L would constitute the Cuban goveranent in exile. Do You recall
2
where that was?
5 That could be quite true.
Have you reviewed Ar. Sturhitts, the Agency' s entire
files relating in any way to the Cuban operations and particu-
larly with reference to whether they reflect any contacts
between the Agency and Frank sturgis?
A_ Yes.
10
Or Frank Fiorini?
11
There is no relationship.
12
;
Is it vour testimony that the records and files of
6 13
1 the Agency reveal no official or unofficial contact f any
14
nature with Frank sturgis?
15
To ny knowledqe that is crue
16
I take it from that that you are emphatic in your
1 7
testimony that he was never an employee of the Agency?
13
Extremely emphatic.
19
2
And you are also equally emphatic to the effect that
20 8
he was never a contract aqent of the Agency?
21 L
A Exactly .
22
W Do you know whether he ever served in the capacitv
V 23
1
of being an informer or informant to the Agency?
24
MM 50955 DoGId:322038511 Page 84
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GECRET 32
2 YOn nenn 7 source 0f
{
2 A Source of infornation of another aqent. Another
{
3 agencv agert.
1L
Do the files o€ the Agency reflect any matter?
4
A To my knonledee I dlon't recall anvthing like that but
it is entirely. possihle that that could have happened without
being a matter of record _
Do the -files of che Aqency reveal any instance what-
ever in which Frank Sturgis was ever asked to undertake anv
kind of an operation or activity on behalf of ehe Aqency?
10
A To ny knofledlge, nothing_
11
Do the files of the Agency reveal any evidence
12
;
whatever that Frank Sturgis was ever paid anything directly or
0
13
1 indirectly the Acencv?
14
A To mV know]edqe , no
15
Now when You sav to my knowledge , no in answer
16
to some of these questions, do I understand that to nean 6t
17
You are giving us the full benefit of your knowledge on the
18
basis of a full review the Agency' s records and files?
19
0 8
On Frank Sturgis, ves _
U
20
6 Okay . During the period of tine that you were with
21 L
the Special Activities Group Erom 1963 to '66 , first of a] 1 ,
22
W can you tell us when that began in 1963?
6; 23
1
A When the Special Activities Group.
: 24
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bw
of
~ :
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SzCREt
8 3
7
Grou;? began?
8 2 A. It bezan
t Ieli, it beaan arourd Tune of 63 _
1
Now , Wit ] particular reference to the last half of
1L
1963 , including whatever period in June 63 nav not have beej
5 involved were there a Great nanv Cubans in the southern (nited
States who were active in revolutionary fronts that were being
sponsored by the Agency?
8 A Wella vou mean Aqencv sponsored Eronts?
9 Yes.
10 A The Agency subsidized these fronts in an effort to
11
have unity rather than these split factions, split anti-Cus::?
12
factions Obviously the leaders of the fronts knew that tre
1
0 13 CIA was subsidizing. Supposedly the people that joined these
2
14
fronts did not know they were being subsidized by the Agecc
3
or the [JaS, Governnent .
15
16
But when vou sav supposedly , 0 does the fact Jnor
to be otherwise?
17
A. WEll, hased on Mv experience with the Cubans ana em:$
18
type of thing, and their penchant to talk, I would think that
19
{
it wouldn' t take long for knowledge of any subsidy to sur Jco
20 8
itself.
21 |
Was it your nion and impression at that tine, 'r_
22
Wj J Sturbitts, that a great many Cubans considered thenselves Lo Jc
23
1
involved in the CIA organizations?_
: 24
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8 4
1
And again iith particular reference to the Miami
3 2 area?
3
3 A Yes .
L
Was there also Cuban activity of this sort elsewhere
5 in the (nited States? I an asking now particularly with
6
reference to New Orleans.
A There was sone Cubzn presence in New Orleans . I am
really not familiar with what happened in New Orleans that was
sort of a sideshow to Miami
But the same is t m40 it is possible that some of the i0
same Cuban organizations which were being sponsored or funded
11
by the Agency also had activities or operations in Ncw Orleans?
12
;
A I don" t know if I can answer that, whether they had
0
13
1
the sane functions. I know that some funding arrangement for
14
subsidizing the organizations in Miani was carried out throus:
13
New Orleans
16
Well, can you he more specific about what vou Mean 7
by that?
18
A Well in other words, to fund these organizations We
19
1
were subsidizing there had to he some ostensible source of
20
8
income for then to continue what they were doing . N great
21 L
number well, not a great number but a number of select
22
W
5
people were m
well, they were selected and then thev were
23
1
talked to pose as trustees , if you would , or directors or
0 24
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to,
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85
8 to get the fundling throngh to &he organizations
3
These pcople Bere nornally prominent people and 8
1 And dlid thev get funded by the Agency then, through
1
the mieium of proninent and fell-to-do people?
A These wel) T to-do people ostensibly would call a friend
of theirs that had heen nade crustee of another tvpe of activity
and sav, vou know _ we are trying to assist these Cubans in this
type of thing . Could your organization give us any money, and
the guy on the other end would say , sure, wA can probably lend
You 825 noo or sonething like that, or donate 525,000 . This is
16
the Ivay the funding vent into the fronts_
11
And was sone of that funding arranged throngh peonle
12
8
in New Orleans?
0 13
8
I woula think SO & I believe So.
} 14
Nere any of the people in Neix Orleans throuqh who7
15
that funding operation was effected people who turned out to ba
16
involved in the investigations conducted bv Jin Garrison?
17
A Not to ny knowledge _
13
How about David Ferrie? Was he ever connected Ivith
19
2
the Agency in anv manner at all in providing funds or assistance
U
20
6
to Cubans or Cuhan groups?
2} L
A I couldn' t sav . I an just not familiar with WC ha:l
22
4 a great manv people that clid this.
23
J
Hor about Shaw? Nas Clay Shaw ever used as a
7 24
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SECret 36
A This I do not knox either. 1
A Parcon?
1
1 This I don' t kno: .
1
BY MR . MANFREOI:
Where would that information be available?
A Nell, Ive have a quv that used work with me who Was
down in New Orleans at that tine. He would probably know
8 Is he in the building?
A Yes .
9
Nhat is his name?
10
n Bi2l Reniel
11
Bi12 Rene?
12
{
A Yes .
0 13
2
BY MR . OLSEM -
} 14
WTho is 0ilz Rent with now? Nhich departnent?
15
He is still with the DDO .
16
BY MR . MANFREDI :
17
Western Henisphere Division?
13
No . He is on ojle of the staffs. He is on the m I
19
1
think Career Management Grou? Staff .
20
5
Is he officed near you?
21 L
A No . He is down in the basement _
3 22
W RY MR . OLSFN :
M 23
8
6 Do the Agency files reveal who the internediaries were
2 24
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SECRET
87
8
A_ Oh , ves ,
3
2 D to the Cuban noverents?
8
1 Yes.
1
Do vou know wheiter do You kno: the identity of an'
of then in New Orleans?
A_ No . No . Totally "nfaniliar with anything that took
#lace in New Orleans
I take-it that Frank sturgis was never an intermediar
for providing funds to the Cuban fronts?
A The files that I have don ' t reflect it. 10
I think we covered this already just a few minutes agc
11
but let me make sure that We have got it on the record _
12
;
I understood vou to say that it was your impression in 1963
0
13
8
that large numbers of Cuban exiles , Cuban people in the souther?
3 14
United states, talked about and believer tbat they were invo]vc
13
in the CIA sponsored activities. Is that true?
16
That is riqht.
1 7
Was it also vour understanding and your inpression
12
that there was a good dea ) of talk among this Cuban elenent in
19
the southern United States about plans or prospects for the
& 2C
G assassination of Fidel Castro?
21 1
A I would say no . I don't think there was a You have
22
got to remenber that these people were embittered _ Thev lost
23
1
their homeland their Dossessions, thev lost everything and the::
: 24
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That is Fiedl Castro?
1
L
3 A That is right, and they would probably verbally do
8 2
anything could to get rid of him.
1
3
Was there a lot of talk about killing Castro among L
4
these Cubans?
5
A I would say among the Cuban exiles there probably was
6
a lot of talk about that.
7
Did you participate, Yourself in the overhearing of
8
such conversations?
9
A No .
10
'Was this a matter of some thing that was reported to
11
you?
12
A Well, it was a I really don t remember what the {
0 13
source of it was but I know in my discussions with people a€ tha
1
14 Station and from my visits down there and that type of ching
15 that this subject always came UP . Nhat were they going co do
16 with Fidel? How are they going to get rid of hin and thig type
17 of thing . I don t mean the Agency people. This is what the
18 Cuban exile community wag discussing.
19 Yes, Do you know what Howard Hunt was doing for che 2
8 20 Agency in 1963?
21
A Well, it seems to me he was here at Headquarters in
L
22 '63 and I think he was assigned to the European Division ot 70
9
23 DDP 1
24 This is your best recollection
4
8
25
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89
A Yes ,
2 at the moment. Is it possible that he was with 8
1
0
Domestic Operations Division in the field of @Eoprietaries
1
4
engaged
5 A I guess you are right, yes _ I believe he was there.
6 Did you personally know Howard Hunt?
No . 8
Never met hin?
I met him 0 That is all. I can't say I know him_
9
You would not have known anything about his wheres
10
abouts on any particular day , then . Is that true?
11
A Can we go off the record?
12
1
(Off the record discussiona )
0
13
1
THE WITNESS : Let S go back on the record_
14
BY MR . OLSEN :
15
I would like to have it on the record_
16
Do You have a particular day?
17
No . I am just asking you if your acquanitance with
18
Hunt was such that you would have known of his whereabouts on
19
{
any particular
20 i
A No .
21 6
Was it very infrequently that you ever saw hin?
22
4 A Oh , I would see hin in the halls, this type of thing ,
23
1
but I0 ## bump into hin perhaps downtown on the street.
24 1
But You would have no occasion for knowing Eron one 8
25
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90
8
to the next where he was?
3
2 A No , 8
3
5 0 Have vo:l ever conducted any kind of inquiry on behalf
L
4 of the Agency as to where he was on November 22 , 1963?
5 A Yes .
Ana when did you conduct that inquiry?
A I have done it twice that I recall and the nost recen:
one was I guess I an just trying to think Nell, it wasn't
too long ago because we did have an inquiry ana we obtained the
time and the attendance records from the Office of Finance which
10
showed that Howard Hunt was on sick leave on that
11
12
Was this just fairly recently?
;
Yes .
0 13
8
I understood from what files I have seen , Mr { 14
Sturbitts, that the only records that were available Erom the
15
Office of Finance showed that he had haa nine hours of sick leave
16
during the two-week pay period ending the 23rd of November but
17
that the records were not available as to how much sick leave
18
or annual leave had been taken on any particular
19
{
A Well
20 i
Am I mistaken?
21
(
A As I recall he was in a duty status one and a
22
v sick leave status the next and back to duty the next
23
1
I would have to check that with my Budget and Fiscal Officer.
24 1
8 He is the chap that got that for Me .
25
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day .
day
day day .
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91
2 Can you check that for us?
3
2 A Sure. {
1 And give uS the results of that?
1
4 A Yes .
Because this is nuch more detailed infornation than
I have been previouly aware is available in the files of the
Agency .
A All right. I will do that.
BY MR , MANF REDI:
9
Do you want to make a note of that? 10
A Let Me have a piece of paper 11
YOu might also want Mr . Sturbitts phone number which 12
{
is 351-5106 .
8 13
8
THE WITNESS : That was 22 November , right?
{ 14
BY MR . MANFREDI:
15
That is the
16
Ac 1963.
17
In response to whose inquiry was that investigation
18
made?
19
1
A I don t know I would have to look that uP, too. I
20 s
don't recall exactly who asked for ita I don t know whether
21 L
I will just have to check that. I don ' t know who it was _
22
4 And the date? Do vou have any idea when you made the
23
1
inquiry?
1 24
2 A No . But Ican find out from the B and F guy , hopefully
+ 25
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1 You said there was a previous inquiry?
L
2 A Yes. The previous inquiry came fron Archie Roosevelt 8
1
who is now retired and was at that particular time the Chief 0f
4 European Division.
5 When was that inquiry received?
6 A. That was about a vear ago , I guess .
7 BY MR _ OLSEN :
About the first tine these photographs began to be
circulated?
A Yes . 10
About the buns in Dallas?
11
A_ Yes and actually I think this Archie' s inquiry
12
1
came fron sone magazine or newspaper man in Europe _ Archie was
8
13
1
@aier 02 Scatione Lonal@uo for a long time and he apparently
14
made a lot of acquaintances over there among the media.
15
This is sonething You are relating to Der Sterm
16
Magazine?
17
A That is right.
18
And did I understand you to say thqt in checking with
19
3
the Office of Finance that it was positively ascertained that
20 i
Hunt was on sick leave on November 22nd?
21 L
A Well, I will have to check that_ That is the way
22
4 I understood it but I did qet this through our Budget People whd
23
1
have the contact with the office of Finance .
: 24
4
9 And that he was on annual leave the before?
25
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9 3
8
A No . He was on a duty status the day before, on sick
3
2 leave, and then on duty status the following 8
1
5 BY MR . MANFREDI :
4 Was there any effort to determine Ihat Mr Hunt' s
5
previous pattern with respect to sick days had oeen?
6 A (Nods in negative)
BY MR . OLSEN :
8 November 22, 1963 , was a Friday. When you say that
9
records reveal that he was on a duty status the next
It was a Friday. Then I was mistaken.
10
Does that mean he was on duty the following Morday
11
or on the next Saturday?
12
{
A No . On the following Monday . I didn t realize che
0 13
1
22nd was a Friday.
14
Nill You check that thing for uS and give u9 8 brie€
15
memo together with whatever supporting
#a #a
copies o€ supporting
16
documents You can find?
17
18
As promptly a3 possible on this question .
19
2
I think that covers che subject matter .
20 i
MR . MANFREDI: I can give You another moment if You 0a7: &
21
L
Can you think of anything else?
22
W
v; MR. OLSEN : I think that is all
23
1
MR. MANFRFDI: Okay. Of € the record _
0 24
2 (off the record discussion)
25
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day ,
Okay .
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94
8
BY MR . MANFREDI:
3
8 2 I am sorrv for the j nterruption but over the long haul
1
5 I think probably I saved You some time.
L
We are talking about nefspaper eritors !iien he were inter-
5 rupted 4 or when I invited the interruntion . I guess I. ought
6 to be fair_
7 Is it not a fact that the Aqency had some relationship with
some prominent newspaper officials in the Miami area?
9 A Yes
10 And what was the nature of that relationship?
11 A @zadieienallv Ehe Chjez @1 'Stationtnaintatnedthez
12
121ationsl2 tikeh @221212115 6 - thE3i2nifieralar_par eulafl
1
Latin Zneeican ediEoE:la3 [L3Ze12EonshEes_zithastafE
0 13
2
nenbeiss T5 hinkEiEEs_uhezMiani larszandsstringens 1Q { 14
Ie @Ehes newsbaRergzand periodicazg 3EZEionedznaTiami?
15
What was the purpose of those relationships?
16
A. I really couldn t say what the prupose of the relatio;-
17
ship was. I mean, the same reason that we establish a relatio:-
18
ship with the press in this town There were certain things tha;
19
1
might come to the attention of the press involving true nares
j
20
6
and incidents that we felt should perhaps not be surfaced at anyl
21 L
particular time
# 22
W
0
Do you have any knowledge of use of the press in Miani
23
1
for propaganda purposes?
24 7
2 A No . No
7 25
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3 [ould you know if that were the case?
8 2
No _ I really wouldn t kno1, but the relationship was
1
5
a two-Way street. It wasn' t simply that we assisted these L
4
people as well as they were assigint uS .
5
What assistance would you render for members of
6
the press in Miami?
7
Nell, in the case of {he Latin AreEicanzedtez}
8
we would put hin in contact with the Chiefs of Stations of
9
areas he periodically visited and the Chiefs of Stations
10 Ivould give him background briefings and this type of thing
11
on the developments within a given country .
12
Was that done evenhandedly for various newvspapers? 1
0 13 Predominantly I woula say probably the Mianiz
1
14 Berald received probably a little more attention ehan %hez
15 @ukes jeapens ZprincpalIybegause_itawas a: lazge papex 'aa:
16 Eheii_baein Amer icaneditor EFwveled zgzeaEzdeazEthroughout
17 Ehg Bemspherer
18
Was he also used as a source?
19
No . 1
20
Do newspapermen in Washington D.C . , receive
21 similar briefings?
L
22
A Yes
4
23 We talked with Mr . Olsen for a short period of time 1
1
24
about fronts , revolutionary fronts How large were these
2
25 organizations?
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1
Well, the nembershi? varied As I said, we were
8 2
principally interested in the leadershi? 0f che organizations
1
5
Once tha organization ~iS estiblisiedd -he Lejdershi? toor
L
4
over then they would take care of enlisting the I suess_
5
getting membership fron che Cuban exile connunity to join_
6
What were their functions the fronzs?
7
Well, it was to bring some unity out of this chaotic
8
thing of the splinter groups and get m as I said, it was a
9
political organfzation in exile
10
Did conduct any operations?
11
No , not that I know of_
12
Just like a political party? {
0 13 Like a political party _
2
{ 14 How many of these fronts were there?
15
There were several of then. I really don t rerenber
16 the names of them The FRD was one The Revolutionary
17 Democratic Front . I guess that was probably the biggest one
18 And there were some others
19 The RDF? 1
20
FRD _ 8
21
I see
L
22 Front Revolutionary Democratic_ It is the
y
23 Democratic Revolutionary Front. 1
1 24 All right. Are these groups still in existence?
8
25
A I would think not . I really don t know
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nbil 3 L
Is there a CIA station in Puerto Rico?
8
2
No There was but there isn t any nore There
1 3
hasn t been ore there for rejrs.
L
4
When was it disbanded?
5
I think the station Ias established around 1958
6
and perhaps it was established be fore that. I think it
7
went out of existence in 1958
8
Do you know it went out of existerce?
9 No , I don E. I don € have any idea _
10 Do you know what function it was perforning?
11 (Nods in negative . )
12 You nentioned earlier that Bernard Barker worked {
6 13 in the Cuban community for the CIA ?
1
14 He worked with these fronts , too
15 Was he perforning any intelligence function in the
16 community?
17 Intelligence Eurctions Ne 11
18 Was he collecting information?
19 Sure_ If he got information that he thought Ws 2
20 worthwhile he would pass it on i
21 Now would he have been considered one of the three |
22 or' 500 persons enployed or assigned to the Miami Station?
4
23 Yes. He was a contract employee
1
24 Ana were intelligence requirements levied on such 1
8
25 contract employees?
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1
1 Normally, the reguirements are pretty standard
8 2
or they were at that tine But here again , always have
1
5
ad hoc type thinss that pop u? fron time to tine anc have to
L
4 be surfaced
5
Some of these contract enployees were, then, i7
6
the business of collecting intelligence infornation in the
7
Cuban communities in Miami
8
Right .
9
Noty , I think we finished with (@hea otS} but can
10 think of any other functions performed bq {he OES that
11 we have not discussed in the course of the afternoon?
12 No , not really. No {
& 13 I think you previously described then for re J5 the
8
} 14 eyes and ears into the Cuban comunity.
15 Right .
16 And' they actually had a physical facility i 3 31471
17 which was their headquarters , did they not?
18 Exactly _
19 And there was a CIA Case Officer who managed 30 5 ::? 2
20 vise that facility.
8
21 A Yes . L
22 NOlv , what has happened to "ta Etlozs
W
0j 23 Ehe AMOTS were gradually phased down and wil) Jo 1
24 out of existence {he3ZMOES are out of existence, arer' € 1
8 25 they? Isn't it the AQDUEES or M these are the zad OEZzo21e
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abh 5
7
Ana e ADURIES are Ehe AtS}?
8 2
Thel AukzS ame Ulio!g bue Zubev} aregrado J2eopple
1 3
@ey ace bz @p88 Eh2 @eRduetez the 1n623gebe 1
4
N813
5
A Yes . The only reason we use two different names
6
is that in each of these things in those &ays we had to have
7
a project which had to be renewed every Year to get the
8
funding _
9
So EDUREiand 2oz
45
10
Synonymous
11
are cryptonyns?
12
{ Yes .
0 13
Do the initials stand for anything other than 1
14
A No Just pick then out_ If you want to encrypt
15 somebody you just call downstairs and they give you a_
16
crypt. You don t have anything to do With it_ Tbe #hapeened
17 az 2h2g @ezeiedlaz] eime ea be Ehe Cuban diogzepb
18
Now , turning to the Miami Station 5 involvement for
19
assistance to the Secret Service in connection with che 2
20
8 political conventions in 1968 and 1972 , would You briefly
21 describe for me the nature of the assistance provided by
L
22 the Agency to the Secret Service?
4
23
At the request of the Secret Service we conducted 1
1 24'
nane traces on individuals Ivhon the Secret Service wanted
8
25 traced _ These includedthe employees of all hotels in Miami
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8
3 Beach where any convention activities were to take place ,
8 2
employees of ca tering services limosine service , employees
1
5
in M that do they call it, the Civic Center in Niami It
1
4
is a big auditoriun down there I forget what call it.
5
Foreign news people and media , television, radio people-
6
Were these people on whom nane traces were requested_
7
all foreign nationals?
8
All foreign nationals
9
Was there any check made to deternine whether
10
any of then were Anerican citizens?
11
A We levied on the Secret Service as a requirenent
12
that they have identified these people by na tionality before ;
0 13
we would run a naze trace_ Inadvertently , at one tine
1
14 they did submit a list, a rather long list of American citizens
15
which we promptly sent back to then and told then we could
16
not trace-
17 And this practice was followed both in 1963 and
18 1972?
19 That is right . 2
0
20 And where were these names traced?
6
21 They were traced back here and also in Miami The |
22 Miami Station did their name check and we did our name check
4
23
here . In the case of Cubans probably the Miani Station had
1
1 24
more information on the Cubans than we would have back here
8
25
But the nanes were traced through Agency files?
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1 A Through Agency Eiles_ L
2 Was Secret Service receiving cooperation from FBI 8
1 5 on this as well?
4 Oh , yes <
5 And in effect, they were getting an all-Agercy name
6 check
7
Right .
8
on people who might pose a secerity threat
9 Yes
to a candidate?
10
A Well, they were just trying to determine who night
11
be a security threat.
12
{
That is right = Potential threat
0 13
8
Ves } 14
For what political parties
# strike that_
15
In 1968 was this service provided for both political
16
conventions?
17
Both political: conventions
18
Mere tkey both held in Miami that year?
19
2
No I guess it was in 1972 they were both held
20
8
there I think it was just the Democratic in 1968
21
L
These requests did come from the Secret Service
22
4 rather than
23
1
From the Secret Service and it was the Director
24 1
9 of the Secret Service cane to the DCI and asked hin for
0
25
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1
support .
8 2
Do You stil] maintain the records Iith respect to
1
3
that tracing activitz?
1
4
I have all the names that have been traced_
5
And they are on little cards cown in your E.iles?
6
Yes .
7
Why have those records been maintained? Is there
8
any reason those records have been maintainez?
9
Well, because we were told to naintain them when
10
the Watergate thing broke
1l
I see_
12 And since then nobody will destroy anything 1
{
0 13
OK = Are you aware of any picketing at various
1
14 places in the country that has been conducted by Cuban
15
groups?
16
I was not aware of it until I was told of it.
17 I still don t know whether this was 3 spontaneous action 9n
18 the part of these people or whether they were instructed *0
19
do it. I tried to run that Zown and I have been unable tc 2
8
20
At what locations has it been reported that Pickets
21
were located?
L
22
Airline of fices in New York, Miani I think another
6j
6i 23 place. I forget where it was 1
1 24 Have You in fact been able to verify that these
2
25
persons were Cubans?
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1
A Well, it is a matter of record in the Aulor his tory
8 2
that this indeed did take place _ NOlv , what I have been trying
1
5
to determine is Ihether the On-Site Case Officer authorized
4 this,which I fully doubt _
5
Nho was the On-Site Case officer?
6
A At that time it was a fellow by the nane onsz
7 ISEo2za
8
Is he still alive?
9
A Yes , he s down in Miami_ But I just do not krow
10 whether this was a unilateral action on the part of @hazz
11 "EoRS against the countries that were then trading with
12 Cuba notably Spain and Great Britain and France . 1
6 13
Other than this incident Ihich we strike :h4f. 1
14 What kind of an investigation have You conducted ?
15 I have talked to people, which is really a)] xou
16 can do There is no other way you can do it.
17 You have been unable to determine who , if anyone
18 authorized this activity? Have You been able to ident:f{
19 any of the persons who participated in the picketing? 2
20 No 8
21 With what frequency did this activity occur?
L
22 I don t have any idea _ I only know of one irgta:ce
4
23 This was in New York City? 1
1 24 New York City and Miami
8
25 Do you know of any organized political activity Rh,c
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abh 1 1
1
EhelNl"S} engaged in?
8 2
To my knowledge , they didn t engage in any .
1
5
Any political activity.
2
4
Do you know of any other activities that they have
5
conducted within this coun try, they or any of their nenbers
6
nave conducted within this country that we have not already
7
discussed this afternoon?
8
A No .
9 Any political activities? Any operations?
10
No . Not really. Of course we have used certain
11
select individuals to what we call hand-hold defectors Cuban
12
defectors. In other words , live with then until they are 1
0 13
resettlea and this type of thing _ And this is another activi
1
14 they engaged in But other than that, I can't think of 2ry-
15 thing else.
16 Do you know of any criminal activities that have
17 been attribited to
18
A I have heard' of some allegations which have never
19 been proven _ 2
i 20 What are the allegations?
21 The allegations concern break-ins and surveillances
L
22 and this type of thing .
4
23 Have those allegations been made with any fre- 1
24 1 quency?
8
25 Well, I forget who it was. It was during the
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L
Natergate trial Some of these allegations that came out
2 8 and I think they were carried in the Anderson colunn but we
1
5 made file checks and this type of thing One particular
L
4 activity was supposed to have been carried out in Rockefeller
5 Center in New York and it turns out it Ias taken out of
6 context. It was a training mission and Em
training exercise_
These guys were being trained in surveillance in New York
8 ana they were simply asked to go into a branch of the Manhattan
9 Chase Manhattan and to come back out and then they were
10 supposed to diagram the layout of the bank And this to sone
11 of them meant casing the bank when in Eact it was just 2
12 nemory exercise
8
6 13 With what Erequency were those kinds of training
8
< 14 exercises conducted?
15 WeLl , whenever there was an whenever it Ias felt
16 that these people , selected individuals , were to be trained
17 in trade craft_
18 And did their trade craft training include such
19 things as surveillance?
2
20 A Sure
5
21 And break-ins? L
22 No . Not break-ins Nor surreptitious entry . As I
4
23 said, in the case of this particular thing, it was misinter-
1
24' preted as casing the bank These exercises were given
I
they
1
2
7 25 could have walked into your office, your outer office and
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7
said # the instructor could have said two hours later tell
8 2
me That is ir that outer ofFice? Nhat is the layout of it?
1
5
Tkis is just for observation
L
4
You statec earlier rone of those allegations have
5
been proven Have any of thez been proved to your
6
satisfaction?
7
No Ithink we disproved them to DY satisfaction
8
I take it You do not believe they took place other
9
than the training exercise?
10 Oh , no No I don ' € believe they did _
11 Do you know of any instances where members of that
12
group have broken in, made any other type of illegal entry
8 13 in this country?
1
14 No .
15 Have you ever been present at any discussions o€
16 the legality or illegality of maintaining stations like the
17 Miami Station within this country?
18 Legality? No _
19 How about the propriety?
1
20 Nell, to Dy knowledge , that really never came uP i
21 No one to my knowledge , has ever questioned the legality or
L
22 the propriety of having the Station_
4
23 There have been sone allegations in the press and
1
24 elselhere about possible nisuse of Cuban exiles nenbers 0 € 1
2
+ 25 that community, by the CIA Are you aware of those?
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7 13
1
1
No
8 2
We received sone correspondence and I have seen SOrc
1
5
articles that susgest that the Cuban connunity is sort of L
4
a resource that is occasionally tapped by the CIA for various
5
operations in this country .
6
You mean this country?
7
Yes . Picketing was one example_ There were also sone
8
other examples of unusual activities Do You have any knowledse
of use by the CIA of Cuban nationals or exiles for any type
10
of operation within this country?
11
A No _
12
Do you know whether or not the Agency has Provided {
0 13
any financial support for Cuban businessnen in this country?
1
14
A No Not to my knowledge
15 @eker EhanizhezGartenanceCoEz coverz
16
No
17
Establishment of businesses?
18
No
19 No? 1
8
20
No _
21
In the course of our discussions today we discussed
L
22 tke_MOTSI 1eb2 _MDUKESD various political front groups
Wi
m 23 revolutionary front groups Are there any other enigre , 1
1 24 Cuban emigre groups in the Miami area which have been supporte
8 25 by the Agency , either financially or otherwise?
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1
1 Not to ny knowledge _
2 Are You faniliar with the appendix that was attached 8
1 3 to Kr Colby?s statement?
L
4 Yes
5 Dia You have sone role in drafting that?
6 You mean the Miani Station thing?
7
Appendix J , entitled, "The Miami Station"
8 Yes
9
You Brote it?
10
Yes.
It has a familiar ring about it. There are refera:c
1l
to indigenous organizations _ emigre organizations Are
12
1
there any others other than the ones we have been discu7s::?
0 13
11
Not to my knowledge Tbere aner>w Eaorzd
14
Wane 8 @al1 ie an @Eganizaz%one we @aa S"_kwelva subsiaiz
15
{he bell &ue 22 Juaniza @ast1
a 16
{ego 3 & Baniliar {izek @hatd
17
gou a8 Eamliar wichi 2ll ehat Zhae ig 1v chab
18
@ezrd @eWla {e@
19
2
Sb2 Ws
@ing
20
8
Prejaganda
21
L
22
@ropaganda bEeadeascs
4 o#Yes:
23
1
Do you have any personal knowledge of what k ind 0 :
24 2
9
intelligence-gathering activities are conducted in the 3}17f
#
25
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1
area now @y Ehe_Hiani Sation
8 2
There are no donestic activities at all in
1
5 Mami Seaeiem 4ll Cuban activities have been roved back
L
4
here to Headquarters The WiamitSEztzon now is completely
5
and solely involved in the intelligence in the Caribbean
6
Does @bezvianizstation 4 I your pardon
7
does the Headquarters component that now handles the Cuban
8
situation in Miami run any agents in the Cuban comunity?
No . Well _
0
let ne explain that to you We do have
10
a career agent @ho has been Ivith us for a many years
11
in Miami and we do use hin to contact relatives of Cubans
12 who are still in Cuba I mean , relatives who are in the U.5 .
1
0 13 who have relatives in Cuba
0
14 Now this is done principally with the idea oE a
15 recruitnent target , determine weaknesses or strengths , tis
16 type of thing _ He does contact these people all over thz
17 United States . If we come across an individual that looks like
18 he might be recruitable, or perhaps we could even double hin,
19
we Will, after Ive make our preliminary assessment , and we
1
20 find out where relatives and these types of people are, We i
21 will ask this career agent or instruct him to go contact 7
22 these people , be it New York , Nel Jersey , Chicago , Or what-
4
23 ever . 1
24 So you use Cuban , now citizens or aliens in this
1
8
25 country, as access agents_
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vh 16
1
Right _
8 2
Just like foreign associates would do 1
3
Exactly .
L
4
Are there any Gore People like Bernard Barker who 5
are contract enployees of the Agency who still work in the
6
Miani-Cuban corunity?
7
No . None
8
That entire apparatus has been
9
ilas been dismantlec.
10
dismantled. Ihat is the curzenEi ezloE-ethe
`11 MiamiuStat1on21
1
12
A I really don t know but it EunS Reewzeent "zandZr4Z
0 13
as far as I know . I think it will bel 11 by the 8 next fiscal
{ 14
year
15 MR _ MANFREDI : off the record
16 (Discussion off tne record.)
17 MR. MANFREDI : Let's JC back on the record
18 BY MR _ MANFREDI :
1
19 There are presen no Cuban Ops being conducted out
20 of Miani? 8
21 No _ All Cuban Ops _ are conducted
L
out of
22 Headquarters _
9
1 23 And even from the Headquarters location there are
17 24 no paramili operations?
9
25 A No .
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3h 17
1
No covert vell, there is sore vropaganda activity
8 2
being conducted still?
1
5
On 2 very sciall Scjle, and the covert action Eacilit'
4
that we had , the radio, tapec program , is being terninated
5
by 30 June. So for all practical purposes , it is terninated
6
nolv .
7
The Biani Starjwl i3 under @gieial covei
8
Yes
9
And it has been decreased to how many people?
10
Between gpand 0
11
And it has absolutely no responsibilities with
12
{ respect to Cuba?
0 13
A Absolutely none _ 1
14
And its responsibilities are entirely directed to
15
other Latin American countries?
16
To Caribbean countries_
17
Caribbean countries_ And I trust that there Jre
18
other Agency stations in the Caribbean?
19
Yes _ !
3 20
Well, I have no further questions , Mr . Sturbitts
21
If You have anything You would like to add you are welcone
L
22
to do So .
4
23 No , I have nothing 11
1 24
I want to thank you on behalf of nyself and the
8 25
Conmission for your cooperation_
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1
Sure_
8
2
I am sorry 5e had to take So auch of your time 1 3
That is all right. 1
6
Thank you again_
(Whereupon , at 3 : 35 0 'clock P . m . 0
the taking of the
6
deposition was concluded. )
7
8
9
10
11
12
{
6 13
1
14
15
16
17
18
19 1
20 8
21
L
22
5
23 1
1 24
8
25
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