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JFK ASSASSINATION SYSTEM
IDENTIFICATION FORM
AGENCY INFORMATION
AGENCY HPSCI
CIA HAS NO OBJEETION TO
RECORD NUMBER 135-10001-10283
DECLASSIFICATION ANDIOR
RELEASE Ok CIA INFORMATION
RECORDS SERIES IN THIS DOCUMENT 5/70/98
AGENCY FILE NUMBER
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR CIA
CIA HAS NO OBJECTION TO
FROM MURPHY _ DAVID E
DECLASSIFICATION ANDIOR
TO RECORD
RELEASE OF CIA INFORMATION
IN THIS DOCUMENT-AS SANFIZED
TITLE
Ka 2 afr~ 9 5
DATE 03 /12/64
PAGES 6
SUBJECTS
MEMORANDUM FOR RECORD : MEETING WITH THE WARREN COMMISSION ON 12
MARCH 1964 1I (WITH ROUTING SHEET ATTACHED)
DOCUMENT TYPE PAPER , TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
CLASSIFICATION S
RESTRICTIONS OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS
DATE OF LAST REVIEW 09/19/94
OPENING CRITERIA
COMMENTS
Contained in file entitled, II Hoch/warren Commission Paper"
"0/R (V-F) IIl
2UZ5 Release under the President John F. Kennedy
#ssassintion Recid: Callection Actof 1992
[R] ITEM IS RESTRICTED
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OUTHNG AND RECORD SHEs
SU3JEct: jOztionol)
#538
FROM: ExteNsix; No_ THET
Chief, SR
DATE
18 March 1964
TO: (Oscer Cesignatioc, room numbar , ond OATE
Juilding) Officer s COMMENTS (Numba cach cjmMeot 1o shov Khom
RECEived FORwAZCZO
INIFIALS 0 Lhom. Drov 0 lino aco s coiumn Aker sach (Jmmsai.)
DDP
2
Attached is the nejorandum
3 for recora of our discus-
sions Ivitn the Karren
Conmission Staff. Tne
4 JeJoraniu: Fas reviewed in 8 $ U
draft by Mr. Rocca .
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5_
DEX
6_
154
7 . Vai~
3_
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2
)
CIA HAS NO OBJECTIQN TQE
DECLASSIFICATICN ANDOR /
RELEASE OF THIS DOCUMENT
~5 8AHFIZEB -22&
2 -3-9
(
'5t)
61 0 usebioGus SECRET CONFI DENTIAL INTERNAL
Use ONLy
UNCLASSIFIED
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L.zJ &12,
12 March 1964
MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD
SUBJECT: Meeting with the WVarren Commission on 12 March 1964
1. On 12 March 1964, Mr. Helms, Mr _ Murphy and Mr _ Rocca
met with Mr . Rankin, Chief Counsel for the Warren Commission, Mr .
Willems, and other members of Mr . Rankin' s staff. The purpose of
this meetirg was to discuss the current status of the CIA contribution
to the work of the Warren Commission:
2. The first topic raised by Mr. Rankin concerned information
on Lee Harvey Oswald's stay in the Soviet Union
aS
reported by the FBI,
based on their interview of the deiector This
discussion is reported in_
2 separate memorandum.
3. After disposing of the question of information on
Oswald, Mr . Rankin'S staff showed us a detailed memorandum they had
prepared based on 2ll of the information available to them, including
our own contribution concerning Oswald's stay in the USSR. This ma -
terial, together with some questions specifically related to the material
we provided, will be forwarded to us by Mr_ Ranrin's staff. It was then
suggested that a CIA officer rost familiar with the material proviced
by CIA on the USSR aspects of the Oswald case visit the Commission in
order to review on the spot the testimony given to the Commission by
Marina Oswald. We agreed to send the appropriate officer to review
this testimony but suggested that we wait until after receipt of the
ma-
terial just shown to uS.
4 Members of Mr . Rankin's staff then spoke about having found
a book in Oswala's possessions wnich haa certain letters cut ot giving
the impression that this migat have formed the base or key for 2
cipher
system. They asked whether it would be useful in
our
opinion to send
this book to NSA for reviewv. We assured them- that NSA-was the appro-
priate Agency for this and Mr _ Rocca commented that when this was
done reference might also be made to the portion of Lee Oswald'$ notes
which mentioned microdot. Another member of the Rankin staff
To
NO
7ER5
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EYES BXV
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AND/OR
HAS
DECLASSIFICATION DOCURENT CIA
ThiS
RELEASE
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commented on the fact that Osweld hzd obtained employment in this
country in 2
photographic firm through a Russian friend. He thought
this might have 2
possible bearing on any clendestine communications
systems he might have received from the Soviets
5_ Members of Mr.
Rankin'$ staff then commented on the testi-
of Mrs.
Oswald to the effect that the letters from her son
regard-
ing yisfdesise tosreturtoto the United States had the appearance of being
dicthtedeince theyecontzined none of his usual grammatical ertors and
used legal language Vith which he would not have been familiar_ In this
connection,
the fzct that Lee Oswald wrote to the Embassy requesting
help in arranging his return to the U.S:
soon after receipt by the Embassy
OE @ telegram irom the Department reporting on correspondence-with
Oswald'g mother seemed to indicate to members o Mr: Rankin's staff
that the Soviets might have had access in some fashion to the contents
of the telegram.
They did not believe it was coincidental that Oswald'$
letter to the Embassy came immediately on the heels of the telegram
from the Department.
This led to a discussion of the appearance in the
press of another telegram or
report, from the Embassy in Moscow to
the Department. Mr .
Rankin said he would underteke to clarify this.
6. Mr .
Willems noted that Mrs. Oswald had introduced a state-
ment to the effect that she suspected her son to be & CIA agent: Mr.
Willems asked wvhether in fact Oswald had been a CLA agent. Mr . Helms
replied that he had not been: Mr
Willems then asked if there were any.
of proving this. Mr _
Helms first remorked that inhim and Mr-
NaphY Efe_Co Emsssiouhad motio clndeste Sezvices ? icer? -rt?
certainly woud know wheEner or not
Qswald had been
an
@gent HOr_CIA
in the Soviet Union
He then Said that the Commission Would have to
take his word for the fact that Oswald had not been an
agent: Mr . Rankin
interjected the view that the Commission had not adopted this procedure
With other agencies and wondered whether there was not some Way to
clarify this
more effectively ior the Commission One suggestion
he made Ivas to have Mr _ Dulles, who is faniliar with CIA records
peocedures, review the material vnich would BoEmally be held On+hgents
and report to the Commission:
Another suggestion was to follow the
lead Of the Director of the FBI who forwarded an affidavit to the Com-
mission Fegarding the nature of FBI relations with Oswald
A
considerable part of the meeting from this forward
consisted of a review by Mr.
Rankin and his staff of the gaps in their
investigation to date.
They noted that the most significant gap appeared
in the Mexican
For example, they had no record 0f Oswald's
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daily movements while in Mexico City nor could they confirm the date
of his departure or his mode of travel The original assumption that
he had returned by bus could not be proven. Several possibilities were
discussed whereby the Commission could fill in the gaps Of its investi-
gation of the Mexican phase_ The suggestion was made that the most
effective way of resolving tne questions they had would be to have &
member of the Commission visit Mexico City and discuss the issues on
the spot with those American and Niexican officials directly concerned:
Mr . Helms noted that it would be possible for a member Of the Com-
mission to visit our Chief of Station who would then be able to work out
wvith the Warren Commission staff member the best way to handle inter_
views with Mexican police officials, particularly if it is desired that
these interviews be informal in nature. Our Chief oE Station would als0
be able to put the Warren Commission staff member in contact with the
FBI officials and Immigration &nd Naturalization Service officers stationed
in Mexico City. Mr .
Helms cautioned that our Chief of StationGyoula be 32
under State Department coverJnd that it would be proper to advise the
Department of the planned visit and upon arrival to meet briefly with the
Ambassador or Minister Counselor before proceeding to work out details
with the CIA Chief of Station_
8 .
In connection with the Mexican phase of the investigation,
mem -
bers of Mr_ Rankin's staff questioned Mr_ Helms and Mr Rocca regarding
the extent of the CLA file on
Oswald for the period 8 October to 22 November
1963 . questioned the sanitized extracts which they had been showvn
and wondered if there were not more. Mr _ Rocca summarized the na-
terials that had come to the attention of the Secret Service, or had been
disseminated to the Secret Service, immediately fter the assassination:
Mr . Rocca said there Was not additional substantive information and that
the sanitized version seen by the Commission constituted the sum of our
holdings. Mr . Helms then explained that 2s a mnatter of practice we cid
not release actual copies of our messages because they contained code -
words and digraphs Which would be unintelligible to
2
person not familiar
wvith them. He added, howvever , that he wold be happy to show the file
with the original messages to any staff member 0f the Warren Commission
who might come to visit him at Langley.
9.
The question of why no action was taken by other 2gencies of
the government after their receipt of CIA information that Oswvald was
in contact with the Soviet and Cuban Embassies in Mexico City was next
discussed: Mr _ Rankin and members of his staff clearly felt that this
was
a crucial question which needed careful reviewv_ They appeared to
E7zS G2ly
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believe that the information On Oswald Was unusual enough to have
caused recipients to take special measures which mignt conceivably
have led to : closer scrutiny of Lee Harvey Oswald and his movements.
Mr .
Helms pointed out that the information on Oswvald'S visit to the
Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City came from telephone inter_
cepts wvhich were
placed on both embassies. These intercepts were
recorded on tape and reviewed by persons at our Stztion for any infor_
mation affecting U. S. security. Such information is routinely passed
to other agencies ana entered in CIA files. Given thz enormous bulk
which is involved, the tapes are not kept on file but erased after & brief
period of time. Thus the information on Oswald Ias similar to that
provided on other American citizens who might have made contacts of
this type. In Oswald's case, it Was the combination 0f visits to both
Cuban and Soviet Embassies which caused the Mexico City Station to
report this to Headquarters and Oswvald's record of defection to the
Soviet Union which prompted the Headquarters dissemination: At the
conclusion of his remarks 0n this subject, Mr_ Helms specified that
the information he had given Mr Rankin was extremely sensitive and
that the very existence of these telephone intercepts had to be very
car
efully protected:
10. The Commission, Mr Rankin said, would be interested in
any information held by CIA on Jack Ruby_ Mr . Rankin said the Com -
mission staff had prepared & rounaup on Ruby, a copy of which he handed
Mr . Helms. He said he would appreciate any file reflections or comments
that CIA analysts might make on this material. wir , Rankin and memkers
of his staff then discussed Ruby's confirned trip to Havana in 1959. Tile
Commission has received information from an unspecified source that
Ruby was in Havana agin in 1963 under a Czech passport. Mr . Rankin
asked whether CIA could provide any assistance in verifying this story_
Mr . Helms replied that CIA would be limited in its possibility of assist-
ing, to air manifest checks in Mexico. These would be carried out he
said.
11. Nr . Helms Iv2S then asked if CLA had done any follow up to
its original telegraphic dissemination of the information on Oswald's
visits to the Cuban and Soviet embassies in Mexico City. Mr _ Helms
replied that there had been no CIA action following our initial dissemi-
nation Mr _ Willems then asked if there were any Iiaison problems
faced by CIA in its efforts to deal with other agencies in matters affect-
ing internal security_ Mr _ Helms replied that there were alwvays under _
standable human problems in conducting any liaison on any subject but
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that by and large thz procedures for dealing with internal security and
counterespionage information which needed to be brought to the attention
of other agencies were effective.
12. Mr . Willems then asked if CIA's intelligence collection system
was 2utomated. Mr. Helms replied that we did in fact have & machine
records system for recovering file information which w2s unique in that
it had been designed specifically with the requirements of the CIA Clandes-
tine Services in mind. Thus, any information reposing in our files could
be recovered by means of this machine system rapidly and efficiently:
Mr .
Helms invited Mr _ Rankin and members of his staff to visit the Langley
Headquarters and inspect the machine records system Which he had des -
cribed.
13. In speaking of the broader question of protection for the Pres-
ident, Mr _ Rankin asked about our procedures for working with the Secret
Service when the President travels abroad. Mr_ Helms described how
the system works and cited exemples from the past to illustrate. He com-
mented on some of the South American trips and on the visit to West Berlin
to show the way in Which the effectiveness and competence of the local
police force plays
a key role in efforts to insure the President's safety.
14. Mr _ Willems asked if vre could check on a memorandum sent
to Mr_ Karamessines on 12 February regarding one of the pictures identi-
fied by Mrs. Oswald as that of Jack Ruby_ These pictures mere from
clandestine photographic coverage of the Soviet Embassy in Mexico
which was provided by the FBI and then cropped to make
2 display to show
to Mrs. Oswald soon after the President's assassination; The Commission
has not been able to determine which of these pictures was shown Mrs.
Oswald. Mr _ Rocca will follow up on this.
5/fbu
David'E. Murphy
Chief, SR Division_
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